The last time we hit 10.2%...

The last time we hit 10.2% people were really freaked out. Much more than today, or at least appeared to be more freaked out than people appear today.

Two changes since then:

1) In the early 1980s the stock market was some abstract thing for millionaires. Pre-401K, ordinary people did not look to the DOW (which measures/predicts only corporate profits going forward) as the barometer of where we are economically.

2) (a possible factor added on edit) The news media today is less interested in average people so freaked-outness may be under-reported.

3) Americans are more docile -- politically and in general.

Discuss

Parents and grandparents retirement investment growth are based on the shipping out of the kids and grandkids jobs.

I really don't know what the hell you're talking about.

The biggest difference between the 80s and now is that people know the bankers are the ones who blew up the economy and that when you take $5 trillion out of the economy, it's going to take a while to fill that hole.

People were no more freaked out then and we had skyrocketing inflation going on as well.

You're just looking for something to freak out over, it's what you live for. No clue why.

And, it's been a long time coming. I think a sense of fatalism has set in, to a degree.

I was too young to notice it.

are still around.

And nobody remembers widespread suffering in 1983 either. These recessions are not depressions, much as the drama queens would like it to be.

Homelessness did not exist in the public mind before that recession, and it never really went away since.

I am shocked to this day by things I saw in '83. Washington DC turned into a Hoovertown almost over-night.

Probably regional differences in play.

That year is an important one for me, because it's the year that I noticed hundreds of homeless vets suddenly turned out into the streets of DC. Reagan had cut funding for the vet homes and the mental health wards, and those people were simply turned out into the cold. It took me years to figure out what had happened, but when I did, I became a Democrat.

Eventually, I became friendly with some of those tragic, damaged people. Some of them didn't even know where they were.

That bastard, Reagan. I hope he's burning in Hell!

but from what you've cited, Reagan cut the funding. Claimed people liked or chose to be homeless. Asshole (Raygun).

They talk about the Dow and I'm guessing most people don't even know what that is. They talk about "points" when the only rational numbers are percentages. But numbers on a website easy to "report" on, so they'll continue to talk about the stock market in day-to-day terms as if all of the country are a bunch of day traders. (Having a 401k doesn't require one to monitor the stock market like this, in fact it's completely ridiculous.)

The problem is more about what I don't hear. I never hear anybody explain to us how these companies earn revenue in the future. Our economy is built greatly upon consumer consumption and at the same time the corporations do not want to pay any livable wages. Domestic cash flow is grinding to a halt. We can't buy all this stuff that they want us to buy if we don't have jobs. It seems like a crushing snowball of a cycle that leaves CEOs with a huge pile of cash and the rest of America (including long shareholders) with nothing.

:eyes:

I smile with pity myself when I post about such a ridiculous population. It is humorous and sad at the same time, but I'm surely not bitter about it


Are you projecting? Quite a biting reply may suggest such

but if you were in Obama's place, you would accomplish nothing.

and of course, it would be someone else's fault. not yours. it couldn't be that you have a rather limited perspective, could it?

Its a nasty habit, and again, all that seething anger behind your words could indicate that you are merely projecting. I am quite comfortable with my own perspective, mind you, but your insistence upon examining it may suggest that you should look inward for the source of your problems and irrationality--not outward.

But when the Public Option passes,
I will be celebrating with the rest of the Democrats.

What will you be doing?
Crying in your beer because you didn't get your Single Payer Pony??

I already have my "Single Payer Pony", so it really isn't a personal matter with me or about my virtual boyfriend. Rather, just about good public policy. Its sad that the Democratic Party is going to be the ones to tie this anchor around their necks.

Enjoy your celebration of this reform. Everyone needs something to be happy about, I guess

Are you Sri Lankan?

so I assumed you were in a country that had that system

Though, its not exactly a "pony". Its attainable and sound policy.

Canada actually. The weather is quite beautiful here

It has no effect on you.

Those with nothing to lose can risk everything on a long shot.

I am also familiar with the US and international health policies. Maybe I do have a little perspective that is valuable for evaluating sound public policy.

What repercussions would that have?

You might be able to envision the ideal,
but we have to get there from where we are at present.
That just can't happen all at once.

It essentially has to happen--the overhead is crippling the country economically, as well as burdening the working class.

The quickest way from point A to point B is a straight line, and to be honest, this is no where on that straight line. There are other incremental measures, such as single-payer catastrophic (high-deductible) insurance, which would eventually lead there if the deductible was slowly lowered. Anything in the realm didn't seem to get any reasonable consideration. This is your chosen course. Bend over and enjoy it.

How could they ever arrive at something "uniquely American"?

then you would understand why single payer is not within reach just yet.

and why the public option is something that will help alot of people soon and help everyone in the long run.
something that can be built upon.

Not all Canadian Provinces had Single Payer to start.
But once those who didn't saw what they were missing, they demanded it.

That would imply there exists a party of politicians that actually care about people.

But incremental steps to it are within reach. Mandating and subsidizing private insurance is just not an incremental step on the pathway there. That is precisely why the Democrats and organized labor rejected Nixon's partnership with the private insurers in the early 70s (which this is pretty much a clone of, aside from the negligible shiny trinket that is the watered down "public option").

Talk about distractions.

Ronnie Raygun was the President then, wasn't he?

Recessions:

1980-1983: Raygun
1991: Bush I
2001: Bush II
2007-?: Bush II

It seems deficits also increase under Republican "leadership." Guess that trickle down bullshit really doesn't work, perhaps they should try it again...who knows...maybe next time it will work?

(And destroy the whole world.)

Two years before Ronald Reagan's 49 state landslide.

:shrug:

Not sure where you are going with this.

communication. I think people are so over stimulated from cells, texts, twitter, email, 24 hr news, blogs, internet, that its like traffic, if you live in the country and go to the city you notice it, but if you drive in it every day, you don't like it but you are used to it.

I think most people live in a make believe denial land until they lose job, a lot of money in stock market or health care and are sick. Until then we all wander around like zoombies going through the motions in our lives hoping the negative economy doesn't touch us. We feel sorry for others but don't voice a sigh of relief that it isn't us.

The offshoring/layoff movement began in earnest during the Reagan years, and has gathered momentum ever since. Horribly enough, the American people have "gotten used to" the never-ending knee-caps inflicted upon them by Wall St.

I am old enough to remember a time when things that are accepted now would have been considered ougtrageous.

The degree of abuse of the workforce, the frightening consolidation of then economy through mergers and aquisitions, the hollowing out of the American economy and job base through "free trade"....etc. etc.

Since the morass of the 70's that culminated in the recession of the 1980's Corporate Ologarcghs and their allies in the media and political leadership have steadikly brainwashed Americans to Accept the Unacceptable.

We have been subject to Orwellian lies presented as truth ever since. "We're eliminating your job to save jobs." "We're eliminating competition to protect competition." "We're gong to lower your wagews to protect your standard of living." "We are going to lower taxes on the rich to help the middle class."

For decades this crap was force fed to the public from Corporate and Financial Oligarchs, and was echoed by the political elite and the media. As the Official Party of Big Business, the Republican Party did their job very well. Unfortunately, the Democratic Party leadership failed to provide an alternative message.

As a result, the majority either gave up and accepted the message of defeatism, or else they misdirected their passion to support the right wing. We're seeing the result today.

Couldn't have said it better.

Transport a segment of the population in time and they'd be rioting at half of the deals that are considered par for the course these days.