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The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)
8. I Expect It Honestly Reflects Present Intentions, Sir
Fri Apr 3, 2020, 11:30 AM
Apr 2020

The proportion will doubtless dwindle as Nivember nears, that kind of voting out of spite usually does.

It reflects two things, I expect.

First, a number of people who vote for Sanders never intend to vote for him in the general election. The most flagrant example was West Virginia in 2016, when some 40% of people who voted for Sanders in the primary told exit pollsters they meant to vote for the cheap thung Trump even if sanders got the nomination.

Second, there is a strain of nihilism that runs deep in 'further left' types, that can make such apparently self-defeating actions make sense to those caught up in the full implications of revolutionary politics.

The 'further left' traditionally take as their chief enemy parties and political figures of the center left, rather than parties and figures of the right. This is because a strong center-left party balks any possibility of revolution. It will have the allegiance of most working people, because it will bring them real benefits in their lives, and by doing so, will shut off influence of the 'further left' by making it clear measures well short of the desperate expedients the 'further left' prescribes for improving the lot of working people are not necessary.

Because center-left parties do uphold the present order of society, the 'further left' sees them as obstacles to its desires quite as much as any reactionary party on the right. Thus you have the 'not a dime's worth of difference' line that views our two major parties as interchangeable. Since the 'further left' cannot comprehend how working people could possibly form an honest attachment to rightist parties, their view comes to be that center-left parties are their chief obstacle to mass support from working people, and they imagine that if center-left parties are broken, they will inherit the mass support of working people, and thus become predominant. Then it will be the time to deal with the reactionary right, but until it is the 'further left' which has undisputed leadership of working people, the reactionary right cannot be dealt with properly.

Properly, here, indicating a policy guided by the slogan quite popular in the radical salad days of the seventies: 'What's the solution? Revolution!' Few nowadays on the 'further left' dream of an actual, barricades and snipers and car-bombs sort of armed revolution, but they do envision a complete overthrow of existing economic and social arrangements. One of the things they fail to understand about working people, and people on the lower rungs of the economic scale generally, is that people who have not much but do have a little are extremely reluctant to put the little they have at risk, and they know that in turmoil and tumult that little will be at risk. There are strains of the 'further left' which do have some understanding of this, and their view is that working people must be made to lose that little they have now, and lose it to the unmitigated predation of the reactionary right. Only then, when they have nothing to lose, will working people be ready for revolution under the banner of the 'further left'. This provides such people still another reason to oppose and demolish center left parties, as these do mitigate the suffering the right would impose on working people, and so are the chief force in balking revolution. These elements view an initial triumph of the reactionary right as an essential step in their own program to achieve revolution, and so are actually quite pleased by the reactionary right achieving political success at the expense of center-left parties.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I' don't believe that. gibraltar72 Apr 2020 #1
Clearly at least 15% Cartaphelius Apr 2020 #11
Language like this aren't doing anything to bring them into the Biden camp SBoy Apr 2020 #30
If I were doing something stupid, I would be upset with the person telling me... ahoysrcsm Apr 2020 #34
I think some people are lying to the pollsters still_one Apr 2020 #2
I Reckon Naught to It. MineralMan Apr 2020 #3
I think they are slimy crossover voters Louis1895 Apr 2020 #4
Spitefaces PubliusEnigma Apr 2020 #5
About 25% of Sanders' supporters will not vote for the nominee DenverJared Apr 2020 #6
It is what they did last time. redstatebluegirl Apr 2020 #7
I Expect It Honestly Reflects Present Intentions, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #8
This makes a lot of sense. thucythucy Apr 2020 #16
The Attitude Is Unfortunately Common, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2020 #17
In 2016, 25% of sanders supporters did not vote for Hillary Clinton Gothmog Apr 2020 #25
+1000 Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #45
They overlook that in the disorder of the revolution treestar Apr 2020 #40
This is excellent...as usual. Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #46
a sad wow. samsingh Apr 2020 #9
they were trumpers anyway and probably wouldnt even vote for BS if he was the nom.. samnsara Apr 2020 #10
Who cares William769 Apr 2020 #12
I suspect half of them are just posing as Brnie supporters, for one reason or another. beastie boy Apr 2020 #13
It's the usual. Those of Sanders's 15% who are my age have Hortensis Apr 2020 #14
That's an Improvement over 2016 - Polls Show 20% - 25% Didn't Vote For Hillary n/t Indykatie Apr 2020 #15
It's really better than I would have expected. I thought it would comradebillyboy Apr 2020 #18
He will make that up in getting Indies and former trump supporters FloridaBlues Apr 2020 #19
A lot of non-Democrats voted for Sanders Dopers_Greed Apr 2020 #20
Agree shadowmayor Apr 2020 #23
Sure he does...they vote for him in he primary but not the General would he to be the nominee. Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #36
Not to worry relayerbob Apr 2020 #21
Don't care. BlueLucy Apr 2020 #22
In 2016, 25% of sanders supporters did not vote for Hillary Clinton Gothmog Apr 2020 #24
Excellent posts. Wish I could like it... Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #38
Thank you Gothmog Apr 2020 #43
Most were probably not Democrats to begin with. nt tblue37 Apr 2020 #26
From the online comments I've seen lately, I would expect it to be much higher. Runningdawg Apr 2020 #27
No different than the last election. nt fleabiscuit Apr 2020 #28
Let's be clear, anyone who would vote for trump is not a democrat. onecaliberal Apr 2020 #29
15% of supporters were never Democrats and just wanted to mess with our primary. 15% is half of LizBeth Apr 2020 #31
DINOs qwlauren35 Apr 2020 #32
No, they are shit stirrers... operation chaos. Those Republicans who will vote for the nominee Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #39
The sanders supporters who voted for trump in 2016 were mainly racists who hated President Obama Gothmog Apr 2020 #33
This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Apr 2020 #35
I'm most concerned with them spreading lies and anti-liberal propaganda from the left mathematic Apr 2020 #37
I know more people who have cited this poll than mikelgb Apr 2020 #41
However, Sir, There Is Solid Data The Magistrate Apr 2020 #42
7% of Sanders supporters say they'd vote for Trump against Biden Gothmog Apr 2020 #44
We go to war with the army we have BlueIdaho Apr 2020 #47
Nothing ibegurpard Apr 2020 #48
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