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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

BidenBacker

(1,089 posts)
33. Excellent thoughtful post
Thu Mar 12, 2020, 03:21 AM
Mar 2020

I disagree with only one or two points so let's see if I can make as much sense as you did. You wrote a long post so I hope you don't mind getting one back in return. Sometimes I get a little tired of just throwing out 1-line barbs or jokes and you can't seriously address shit like that. You don't have to read it and my feelings won't be hurt if you don't.

I think Sanders wants Biden to address issues he feels his base needs to hear from Biden's own lips, and I think he wants him to address those issues successfully with persuasive remarks.

Perhaps, but that's a double-edged sword. Not only will Bernie's base hear how Biden addresses them but so will Republicans and they will use that against him in the general election. A day or two ago there was a round-robin discussion on TV which included a fellow whose name I now forget but he was somebody in Dubya's administration. He said what the GOP will be closely listening for is how many concessions Biden will have to give in order to win over Sanders supporters. Too many and Joe will start losing the middle...losing 2 or 3 moderates to pick up 1 on the far left is a losing proposition.

Biden is a liberal...but he is also well-liked and trusted by moderate and even conservative Democrats. And he is acceptable to many Independents...about half of whom identify as moderates, ie, neither left nor right-leaning. If he is mistakenly perceived by some of these folks as being less liberal than he really is than I say great, let's not look a gift horse in the mouth and broadcast too loudly what some of the policies he would pursue while in office would be and risk scaring them off. If Bernie were to force Biden to say "sure, I'm all for AOC's Green New Deal as is...sign me up!" you can be sure the GOP will hammer him with that relentlessly during the GE campaign.

Biden wants to address climate change...he wants more people to have health insurance...he wants to rebuild the middle class. Hell, most if not all of his most ardent supporters want the exact same things. But if he were to just fall in line with BS in order to placate him and pick up a few of his voters then Goppers will just nail Joe with the exact same angle that we Biden boys been hitting Bernie with all this time...just how the hell are you gonna pay for all of this stuff you keep promising everybody? Bernie just armwaves when he gets this question...because he either doesn't know or he does know and realizes a lot of people aren't gonna like the answer so he just plays dumb or deflects. I fail to see how putting Joe into the exact same trap that Bernie's now in will help and not hurt him come the GE. They didn't need to debate in order to hammer out some kind of agreement...they coulda just as easily (and even more easily) gotten together behind closed doors and come to some kind of understanding that Biden will support as many of BS's favorite policies as are realistically doable.

The biggest problem with some (certainly not all) progressives is that they don't seem to be very good at adding up numbers...whether it's how much it's gonna cost to do everything BS is promising or just how many people actually fall into their camp (of which I include myself, BTW). Progressives make up about 40-45% of the Democratic Party which is roughly 33% of the total electorate. On top of that about 23% of Independents identify themselves as "liberal-leaning" and Indies are roughly 40% of the population. Not all of these are full-blown progressives so let's be very generous and say half of these liberal-leaning Indies are progressive which I'm sure is too high. Do the math and you get 15-20% of all voters who are progressives. That sure seems to me to be a relatively small amount of people demanding an awful lot of power. And that's why their "all or nothing" attitude often leads to them getting nothing. They would do well to learn how to compromise like Biden has over the years instead of calling that a "weakness" of Joe's. They would do well to learn a little history and read how the one progressive candidate we've nominated in the last half century got wiped out...and I mean wiped out. And while they were learning a little history they would do just as well to read how one President was able to deliver some of the most progressive advances in our nation since FDR...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/01/28/lbj-great-society-josh-zeitz-book-216538

http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,841674-1,00.html

LBJ could be rude and he could be crude...but he was a prudent progressive who got a lot more than nothing. Which is what Bernie and his supporters will end up with if they don't stop grabbing for everything. Thomas Jefferson would tell them...

Once, when scolded by an unhappy supporter for not reshaping the country fast enough, Thomas Jefferson offered a well-reasoned rejoinder. "When we reflect how difficult it is to move or to infect the great machine of society," he wrote, "we see the wisdom of Solon's remark that no more good must be attempted than the nation can bear."

Apologies for the long post...back to one-liners for me!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

No debate...it is stupid. BIDEN WON. GET OUT SANDERS Demsrule86 Mar 2020 #1
If it happens, they'll also use it against us. ucrdem Mar 2020 #2
Democracy is a good thing. Don1 Mar 2020 #3
Democracy is how Biden won Michigan. ucrdem Mar 2020 #6
Yes but Michigan isn't the Party and certainly not the country. Don1 Mar 2020 #8
I'm suggesting that ignoring what voters have expressed is an insult to democracy. ucrdem Mar 2020 #11
And it feels like only yesterday when the DNC didn't want to count hughee99 Mar 2020 #40
Debates have nothing to do with democracy. TwilightZone Mar 2020 #9
What??! Don1 Mar 2020 #14
Uhmm who gives a fu**. There is a crisis and we should not have a gathering that might put people 58Sunliner Mar 2020 #4
This. Anyway a TV debate without audience Hortensis Mar 2020 #13
Who is the younger woman? Tulsi? 58Sunliner Mar 2020 #15
Yes, surprise, she's still on the ballot. Hortensis Mar 2020 #19
Isn't she a dem though? I couldn't see her being able to get on the ballot unless she goes 58Sunliner Mar 2020 #20
Nope. Outside of Sanders fans, no one cares about the debate. TwilightZone Mar 2020 #5
it is 2 hours of free tv time for us dems! questionseverything Mar 2020 #28
Not if all Sanders MFM008 Mar 2020 #35
lord if biden can handle being leader of the free world questionseverything Mar 2020 #44
Come on...really? Don1 Mar 2020 #7
Calling off a debate is not "stopping democracy". TwilightZone Mar 2020 #10
Just watch how that plays out. Don1 Mar 2020 #12
The only reason Bernie supporters and Bernie campaign want a debate NCProgressive Mar 2020 #18
Agreed. Bernie is toxic when cornered. 58Sunliner Mar 2020 #21
Yes really. No one cares. To have a red faced Sanders screaming at Biden and Demsrule86 Mar 2020 #22
Everyone? Really? 6.17 million viewers for the last debate. Over multiple platforms. Scurrilous Mar 2020 #34
The number of debates is not set in stone. The race is decided. brush Mar 2020 #36
Who cares what the republicans think? NCProgressive Mar 2020 #16
I think Bernie needs to be ignored showblue22 Mar 2020 #17
I don't give a shit what the Republicans say BidenBacker Mar 2020 #23
His policy answers ALREADY ARE resonating relayerbob Mar 2020 #24
I don't believe it and I do not care. It is the Democratic primary and has nothing to do with Repubs LizBeth Mar 2020 #25
Bernie's last hope lapfog_1 Mar 2020 #26
This is exactly the reason they are pushing the debate dansolo Mar 2020 #37
I want him to pull a Reagan lapfog_1 Mar 2020 #38
This is a weak rationale. Want a debate? Go look at the last TEN. Vivienne235729 Mar 2020 #27
Fuck the Republicans. The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2020 #29
I don't care what the GOP thinks HarlanPepper Mar 2020 #30
It looks like I may be one of the only Biden supporters who has no problem with the debate. musicblind Mar 2020 #31
Excellent thoughtful post BidenBacker Mar 2020 #33
I have no problem with the debate at all. TwilightZone Mar 2020 #39
We've had ten debates thus far kurtcagle Mar 2020 #32
Then Biden should welcome this debate democrattotheend Mar 2020 #43
Agree. Think of how this looks pinkstarburst Mar 2020 #41
Exactly. Don1 Mar 2020 #42
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