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Democratic Primaries
In reply to the discussion: There's not going to be a 'revolution' at the voting booth for Bernie [View all]Gothmog
(170,645 posts)108. No, radical policies won't drive election-winning turnout
The concept of a magical voter revolution is debunked
Link to tweet
Sanderss explanation of why this is not a problem is simple, and he has repeated it endlessly. When a member of the Los Angeles Times editorial board asked him whether a candidate as far to the left as you would alienate swing voters and moderates and independents, the senator replied: The only way that you beat Trump is by having an unprecedented campaign, an unprecedentedly large voter turnout. Faiz Shakir, Sanderss campaign manager, adds: Bernie Sanders has very unique appeal amongst [the younger] generation and can inspire, I think, a bunch of them to vote in percentages that they have never voted before.
This has remarkably little empirical support. Take the 2018 midterm elections, in which the Democrats took back the House (a net 40-seat gain), carried the House popular vote by almost nine points and flipped seven Republican-held governorships. Turnout in that election was outstanding, topping 49 percent the highest midterm turnout since 1914 and up 13 points over the previous midterm, in 2014 and the demographic composition of the electorate came remarkably close to that of a presidential election year. (Typically, midterm voters tend to be much older and much whiter than those in presidential elections.) This was due both to fewer presidential drop-off voters (people who voted in 2016 but not 2018) and to more midterm surge voters (those who voted in 2018 but not 2016) ..
This analysis shreds an implicit assumption of Sanders and other members of the turnout-will-solve-everything crowd: that if they polarize the election by highlighting progressive issues, their nonvoters will show up at the polls, but none of the nonvoters from the other side will. That view is also contradicted by many political science studies. Stanford political scientists Andrew Hall and Daniel Thompson, for example, studied House races between 2006 and 2014 and found that highly ideological candidates who beat moderates for a party nomination indeed increased turnout in their own party in the general election but they increased the opposition turnout even more. (The difference was between three and eight percentage points.) Apparently, their extreme political stances did more to turn out the other side to vote against them than to turn out their own side to vote for them.
The turnout equation does not necessarily return positive results for a candidate like Sanders. The reverse is more likely. It is truly magical thinking to believe that, in a highly polarized situation, only your side gets to increase turnout. And if the other side turns out in droves, you might not like the results a warning Democrats would be wise to heed.
This has remarkably little empirical support. Take the 2018 midterm elections, in which the Democrats took back the House (a net 40-seat gain), carried the House popular vote by almost nine points and flipped seven Republican-held governorships. Turnout in that election was outstanding, topping 49 percent the highest midterm turnout since 1914 and up 13 points over the previous midterm, in 2014 and the demographic composition of the electorate came remarkably close to that of a presidential election year. (Typically, midterm voters tend to be much older and much whiter than those in presidential elections.) This was due both to fewer presidential drop-off voters (people who voted in 2016 but not 2018) and to more midterm surge voters (those who voted in 2018 but not 2016) ..
This analysis shreds an implicit assumption of Sanders and other members of the turnout-will-solve-everything crowd: that if they polarize the election by highlighting progressive issues, their nonvoters will show up at the polls, but none of the nonvoters from the other side will. That view is also contradicted by many political science studies. Stanford political scientists Andrew Hall and Daniel Thompson, for example, studied House races between 2006 and 2014 and found that highly ideological candidates who beat moderates for a party nomination indeed increased turnout in their own party in the general election but they increased the opposition turnout even more. (The difference was between three and eight percentage points.) Apparently, their extreme political stances did more to turn out the other side to vote against them than to turn out their own side to vote for them.
The turnout equation does not necessarily return positive results for a candidate like Sanders. The reverse is more likely. It is truly magical thinking to believe that, in a highly polarized situation, only your side gets to increase turnout. And if the other side turns out in droves, you might not like the results a warning Democrats would be wise to heed.

primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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There's not going to be a 'revolution' at the voting booth for Bernie [View all]
Lexblues
Feb 2020
OP
Yes. And BS lost half of his Iowa votes to the new guys. He needs more this time, not fewer.
Squinch
Feb 2020
#7
No. It's simply a statement of fact. If it distracts you from being happy about Joe's showing,
Squinch
Feb 2020
#12
Doesn't change that half his 2016 voters abandoned him. But I guess that isn't something
Squinch
Feb 2020
#15
You seem to need to talk about Joe. I haven't brought him up. Joe's showing is not
Squinch
Feb 2020
#22
Sure. Half your voters have decided they don't want to vote for you any more. Total victory.
Squinch
Feb 2020
#25
You guys keep saying that. But it doesn't change the fact that BS lost half his support.
Squinch
Feb 2020
#30
Actually, BS support likes caucus. Biden's support don't participate in caucus.
krissey
Feb 2020
#42
I don't believe that Biden needs to outperform Buttigieg in New Hampshire.
TexasTowelie
Feb 2020
#66
I didn't hear about Trumpers trapping voters. And I think it's probably bullshit. Care to
Squinch
Feb 2020
#13
I believe Biden is still our best bet. And until Iowa, he had a great chance. Unfortunately, Iowa,
emmaverybo
Feb 2020
#102
In my opinion, if we nominate Bernie, Trump will win with somewhere around 350 electoral votes.
Still In Wisconsin
Feb 2020
#11
I don't think I'll base my one chance to get rid of Filthy Donny on your opinion.
Squinch
Feb 2020
#23
As long as you don't expect your opinion to matter to anyone else either, that's fine.
Kentonio
Feb 2020
#85
Sanders supporters? No. I don't expect them to be influenced by anything but their own opinions.
Squinch
Feb 2020
#88
What are you basing your opinion on? "Facts" that you read around here? Sanders beats trump
JudyM
Feb 2020
#36
What matters is individual states, not popular vote totals. This should be obvious now.
Still In Wisconsin
Feb 2020
#38
Sanders wins MI and probably WI. He took both states last time around & trump won there because of
JudyM
Feb 2020
#40
IF bernie wanted a 'Revolution' he would have done this in his youth..Dear Gawd how long...
samnsara
Feb 2020
#27
It was supposed to be magic revolution, not the regular raggedy running about kind, but magic.
Scurrilous
Feb 2020
#44
It's one thing to show up at college after class and meet your friends but quite another to go to a
UniteFightBack
Feb 2020
#59
When I ask serious Bernie supporters who are our students if they are registered.
redstatebluegirl
Feb 2020
#76
Have read Rick Wilson's new book ? That's exactly what he said, in fact IIRC, he said the high point
OnDoutside
Feb 2020
#79
The truth is, you have no evidence to support your fear based hypothesis
Fiendish Thingy
Feb 2020
#103