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okasha

(11,573 posts)
13. A vision in NA terms
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 02:30 PM
Mar 2013

is loosely definable as the sensory perception of spiritual beings and in some cases the reception of knowledge not available by ordinary sensory means. (Which is nothing official, just my attempt to get it into orthodox Western categories, and my academic knee jerking.)

Every NA nation has one or more ceremonies for seeking a vision, and those do occur within a religious context. Two of the most common are the vision quest and the shaking-lodge ceremony.

The vision quest is a rite of passage for young people. Its purpose is to open communication between the seeker and the spiritual being who will become her/his patron and helper, usually for the rest of his/her life. This spiritual being may be in human or other animal form, or may appear as something Western culture doesn't recognize as sentient--a tree, for instance, or a stone. The vision quest may also be used in to seek a solution to a specific problem.

The shaking-lodge ceremony is less common and more intense. It can be used for healing and for finding lost persons or objects. (In the case of a plane crash, for instance.) In this ceremony, the shaman undergoes sensory deprivation by being wrapped and tied into a covering, now usually a star quilt. There are prayers and drumming by the group attending for the intention of the ceremony. A fairly universal feature of this ceremony is the entry of the spirits manifested as blue or green sparks and sometimes the sound of the spirit animal who is the shaman's patron or who has been explicitly invoked for the purpose of the ceremony. At this time, the lodge and rattles placed on the lodge floor will shake. All this takes place in darkness. When the shaman has received the answer that is being sought, the spirits depart and the shaman is untied.

Hallucinatory plants are not used in these ceremonies.

Visions also occur spontaneously, sometimes in the course of another ceremony, sometimes completely out of ceremonial context. Those tend to be prophetic or what is usually regarded as clairvoyant--the person sees or hears an event happening at a distance or in the future or past.

Off to the ceramics studio to throw things now but please feel free to ask other questions.

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As a life long migraine sufferer, I can assure all that is no proof of heaven--though maybe of hell. hlthe2b Mar 2013 #1
I had migraines for a time and my aura consisted of bizarre visual hallucinations. cbayer Mar 2013 #3
I have a seizure disorder, medically controlled now. But when I was having episodes, I've got to say pinto Mar 2013 #11
Who knows for sure? I read the review of the neurosurgeon's book a while back cbayer Mar 2013 #2
He must be a crappy neurosurgeon if he believes he saw heaven Apophis Mar 2013 #4
Well, kentauros Mar 2013 #5
Thats too bad that you feel that way about Shermer. He is all about facts and the science behind it cleanhippie Mar 2013 #25
I am not sure how the two are related. cbayer Mar 2013 #7
NDEs are easily explainable. Apophis Mar 2013 #8
Not all that easily explained. There is still a lot not known, particularly cbayer Mar 2013 #9
The simple explanation skepticscott Mar 2013 #16
I am asking you politely to leave me alone. cbayer Mar 2013 #26
It is my understanding skepticscott Mar 2013 #27
I have not said anything about that. I am simply and politely asking that you leave me alone. cbayer Mar 2013 #28
Then I guess I don't understand what that means skepticscott Mar 2013 #29
For the third time, I am asking that you leave me alone. cbayer Mar 2013 #30
If you're asking skepticscott Mar 2013 #33
Let me try to explain the difference between a 'safe haven' group and other groups. grantcart Mar 2013 #41
Forgive me if I'm confused skepticscott Mar 2013 #43
Are you really that obtuse? grantcart Mar 2013 #44
I have brought no past antagonisms here skepticscott Mar 2013 #45
Discussion, yes. kentauros Mar 2013 #39
As a host and co-founder of this effort, allow me to associate myself with your comments. nt MADem Mar 2013 #40
As I read that skepticscott Mar 2013 #42
As far as I and the rest of the hosts are concerned, kentauros Mar 2013 #46
There's certainly still a lot unknown about consciousness. Jim__ Mar 2013 #31
Agree. We've come so far in the last 50 years in terms of cbayer Mar 2013 #34
Here's a link to the video of the Larry King episode. Jim__ Mar 2013 #6
I had migraines for thirty years okasha Mar 2013 #10
Would love to hear more about NA takes on visions. Are they seen in a religious context? pinto Mar 2013 #12
A vision in NA terms okasha Mar 2013 #13
Thanks. pinto Mar 2013 #14
The memories of near death experiences: More real than reality? Jim__ Mar 2013 #15
There is another book about near death experience coming out goldent Mar 2013 #17
Not sure how people who have "objectively died" skepticscott Mar 2013 #19
I agree you could claim they never died based on the definition of the word goldent Mar 2013 #22
Again, this is most likely just a problem with his tools skepticscott Mar 2013 #23
Well, it is a fascinating subject goldent Mar 2013 #37
An interesting scientific study of near death experiences goldent Mar 2013 #18
The operative word here is probably "measurable" skepticscott Mar 2013 #20
Yes, it could be that the brain is working even when their is no activity. goldent Mar 2013 #21
Well, there's either brain activity or there isn't skepticscott Mar 2013 #24
"Well, there's either brain activity or there isn't" goldent Mar 2013 #35
What we can say is skepticscott Mar 2013 #36
To be more precise... goldent Mar 2013 #38
Art and religion are a match made in heaven... TreasonousBastard Mar 2013 #32
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