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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: To Sanders supporters FROM a Sanders supporter: please stop saying Bernie should've got the nom. [View all]Gothmog
(168,336 posts)2. The DNC had nothing to do with the fact that Jewish, African American and Latino voters rejected
Sanders.
Sanders was soundly rejected by three key groups in the base of the Democratic Party. Sanders was rejected by Jewish, African American and Latino voters and got less than 43% of the vote in the primaries The DNC had nothing to do with the fact that Jewish, African American and Latino voters rejected him. Sanders was rejected by Jewish, African American and Latino votes. Sanders did not come close to getting enough votes.
http://pleasecutthecrap.com/a-message-for-hardcore-bernie-stans/
Hillary Cinton won the nomination because of democracy. She received more than 57% of Democratic votes cast. Bernie Sanders virtually only won caucuses, which are the least democratic aspect of the primary process. And most of those he won only because she decided to save her money for the General election. He won very few primaries, except for his home states and Michigan and his clock was cleaned in virtually every other state that mattered. Demographically, he only won white liberals. The fact that YOU think he made it close, or only lost because of Super Delegates is a hallmark of your delusion. Bernie Stans largely didnt seem to notice that she reached out to you repeatedly and you bit her hand off, making you more like Republicans than you should be comfortable with.
Sanders could not win the popular vote and was in the process only due to caucuses. The claim that the DNC fixed the primary process is wrong http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044
Easily the most ridiculous argument this year was that the DNC was some sort of monolith that orchestrated the nomination of Hillary Clinton against the will of the people. This was immensely popular with the Bernie-or-Busters, those who declared themselves unwilling to vote for Clinton under any circumstances because the Democratic primary had been rigged (and how many of these people laughed when Trump started moaning about election rigging?). The notion that the fix was in was stupid, as were the people who believed it.
Start with this: The DNC, just like the Republican National Committee, is an impotent organization with very little power. It is composed of the chair and vice chair of the Democratic parties of each state, along with over 200 members elected by Democrats. What it does is fundraise, organize the Democratic National Convention and put together the party platform. It handles some organizational activity but tries to hold down its expenditures during the primaries; it has no authority to coordinate spending with any candidate until the partys nominee is selected. This was why then-President Richard Nixon reacted with incredulity when he heard that some of his people had ordered a break-in at the DNC offices at the Watergate; he couldnt figure out what information anyone would want out of such a toothless organization.....
According to a Western European intelligence source, Russian hackers, using a series of go-betweens, transmitted the DNC emails to WikiLeaks with the intent of having them released on the verge of the Democratic Convention in hopes of sowing chaos. And thats what happenedjust a couple of days before Democrats gathered in Philadelphia, the emails came out, and suddenly the media was loaded with stories about trauma in the party. Crews of Russian propagandistsworking through an array of Twitter accounts and websites, started spreading the story that the DNC had stolen the election from Sanders. (An analysis provided to Newsweek by independent internet and computer specialists using a series of algorithms show that this kind of propaganda, using the same words, went from Russian disinformation sources to comment sections on more than 200 sites catering to liberals, conservatives, white supremacists, nutritionists and an amazing assortment of other interest groups.) The fact that the dates of the most controversial emailsMay 3, May 4, May 5, May 9, May 16, May 17, May 18, May 21were after it was impossible for Sanders to win was almost never mentioned, and was certainly ignored by the propagandists trying to sell the primaries were rigged narrative. (Yes, one of them said something inappropriate about his religious beliefs. So a guy inside the DNC was a jerk; that didnt change the outcome.) Two other emailsone from April 24 and May 1were statements of fact. In the first, responding to Sanders saying he would push for a contested convention (even though he would not have the delegates to do so), a DNC official wrote, So much for a traditional presumptive nominee. Yeah, no kidding. The second stated that Sanders didnt know what the DNCs job actually waswhich he didnt, apparently because he had not ever been a Democrat before his run.
Bottom line: The scandalous DNC emails were hacked by people working with the Kremlin, then misrepresented online by Russian propagandists to gullible fools who never checked the dates of the documents. And the media, which in the flurry of breathless stories about the emails would occasionally mention that they were all dated after any rational person knew the nomination was Clintons, fed into the misinformation.
In the real world, here is what happened: Clinton got 16.9 million votes in the primaries, compared with 13.2 million for Sanders. The rules were never changed to stop him, even though Sanders supporters started calling for them to be changed as his losses piled up.
Start with this: The DNC, just like the Republican National Committee, is an impotent organization with very little power. It is composed of the chair and vice chair of the Democratic parties of each state, along with over 200 members elected by Democrats. What it does is fundraise, organize the Democratic National Convention and put together the party platform. It handles some organizational activity but tries to hold down its expenditures during the primaries; it has no authority to coordinate spending with any candidate until the partys nominee is selected. This was why then-President Richard Nixon reacted with incredulity when he heard that some of his people had ordered a break-in at the DNC offices at the Watergate; he couldnt figure out what information anyone would want out of such a toothless organization.....
According to a Western European intelligence source, Russian hackers, using a series of go-betweens, transmitted the DNC emails to WikiLeaks with the intent of having them released on the verge of the Democratic Convention in hopes of sowing chaos. And thats what happenedjust a couple of days before Democrats gathered in Philadelphia, the emails came out, and suddenly the media was loaded with stories about trauma in the party. Crews of Russian propagandistsworking through an array of Twitter accounts and websites, started spreading the story that the DNC had stolen the election from Sanders. (An analysis provided to Newsweek by independent internet and computer specialists using a series of algorithms show that this kind of propaganda, using the same words, went from Russian disinformation sources to comment sections on more than 200 sites catering to liberals, conservatives, white supremacists, nutritionists and an amazing assortment of other interest groups.) The fact that the dates of the most controversial emailsMay 3, May 4, May 5, May 9, May 16, May 17, May 18, May 21were after it was impossible for Sanders to win was almost never mentioned, and was certainly ignored by the propagandists trying to sell the primaries were rigged narrative. (Yes, one of them said something inappropriate about his religious beliefs. So a guy inside the DNC was a jerk; that didnt change the outcome.) Two other emailsone from April 24 and May 1were statements of fact. In the first, responding to Sanders saying he would push for a contested convention (even though he would not have the delegates to do so), a DNC official wrote, So much for a traditional presumptive nominee. Yeah, no kidding. The second stated that Sanders didnt know what the DNCs job actually waswhich he didnt, apparently because he had not ever been a Democrat before his run.
Bottom line: The scandalous DNC emails were hacked by people working with the Kremlin, then misrepresented online by Russian propagandists to gullible fools who never checked the dates of the documents. And the media, which in the flurry of breathless stories about the emails would occasionally mention that they were all dated after any rational person knew the nomination was Clintons, fed into the misinformation.
In the real world, here is what happened: Clinton got 16.9 million votes in the primaries, compared with 13.2 million for Sanders. The rules were never changed to stop him, even though Sanders supporters started calling for them to be changed as his losses piled up.
I was a delegate to the national convention and I saw much of this silliness first hand. Ignoring that Hillary Clinton got 3.7 million more votes than Sanders does not help your case
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To Sanders supporters FROM a Sanders supporter: please stop saying Bernie should've got the nom. [View all]
Ken Burch
Jan 2017
OP
Well said, but also remember that what gets said on DU has absolutely nothing to do...
TreasonousBastard
Jan 2017
#1
The DNC had nothing to do with the fact that Jewish, African American and Latino voters rejected
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#2
Hillary brought up the ghost Bobby Kennedy to justify why she was staying in the race in 2008
NWCorona
Jan 2017
#13
That never happened. She wasn't even answering a question about whether she could still win.
StevieM
Jan 2017
#17
What are you talking about? She was talking about people trying to push her out of the race
NWCorona
Jan 2017
#19
Yes, and that was a long time ago! She dropped that "ghost of Bobby Kennedy" more than a month...
George II
Jan 2017
#33
Then why bring up what she said more than a month before the convention, and a few days....
George II
Jan 2017
#36
Like I said. To show that Hillary chose to stay in the race even tho the math was against her
NWCorona
Jan 2017
#39
And Sanders chose to stay in the race ONE MONTH LONGER for the same "reason"!
George II
Jan 2017
#43
Yes he did. It didn't bother me that Hillary stayed in either. In fact it pissed me off
NWCorona
Jan 2017
#46
Well, some people as sure as hell being sore winners... i remember when Obama came in and
dionysus
Jan 2017
#98
Politically speaking that was a very long time, and Kennedy got shredded for what he did. BUT....
George II
Jan 2017
#71
But Kennedy DID withdraw before the first ballot, Sanders waited until more than halfway through....
George II
Jan 2017
#92
Sanders has been faithfully voting for Democratic leadership in the House and Senate
former9thward
Jan 2017
#93
Again with the timeline? Is that all you have because you use use it ad nauseum
NWCorona
Jan 2017
#74
"Sticking it to Trump"? Just yesterday he was lecturing Democrats that they should NOT do so.
George II
Jan 2017
#34
I said somewhere else that he's starting to look more like Joe Lieberman every day.
George II
Jan 2017
#65
Oh fuck him for that. No wonder he's been so silent on Sessions and That piece of shit from Exxon!
bettyellen
Jan 2017
#81
Sanders is not immune to criticism... he needs to stay home too, as should all Dems.
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jan 2017
#164
He's everywhere now because he's selling a book. He was no where to be found
lapucelle
Jan 2017
#155
It is no lock for Ellison, but unless things have changed, Schumer has endorsed him, and that does
still_one
Jan 2017
#86
You tell em... Bernie is the example all future Democratic candidates should follow.
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jan 2017
#156
How specifically has he "stepped up to fill the leadership vacuum"? And just what is that "vacuum"?
George II
Jan 2017
#45
So then, you can't be specific or cite one single act of "leadership". I see.
George II
Jan 2017
#51
The Sanders wing is not destined to become the dominant faction in the Democratic Party
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#29
What is so sad is that you think that anyone cares about the Sanders could win thread
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#100
You posted another response to this post showing you did care about such threads.
Ken Burch
Jan 2017
#108
We will need every vote we can get(and neither HRC nor Bernie will run again).
Ken Burch
Jan 2017
#85
As strident a Clinton supporter as I have been, there is zero chance she is going to be the nominee
Grey Lemercier
Jan 2017
#90
IMHO, what hurt Bernie the most in the primaries was the vitriol by some of his
still_one
Jan 2017
#11
since the time I've been here, there's been vitriol on both sides, and that was pretty
JCanete
Jan 2017
#12
I understand Ken, and that was my first comment, it was not meant to reopen the
still_one
Jan 2017
#23
Are you going to keep this up until everyone even vaguely associated with the Sanders campaign
Ken Burch
Jan 2017
#61
Had a long post, but in the interest of not rehashing this erased it. To going forward. nt
JCanete
Jan 2017
#22
Then just to that point, that was the focus of my first comment, which was short
still_one
Jan 2017
#25
I haven't seen any posts containing anti semitic remarks that received a lot of recommendations
still_one
Jan 2017
#95
The premise that the Sanders wing is destined to control the Democratic party is not true
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#15
The "No TPP" language was omitted from the platform in order not to embarrass a sitting Democratic
lapucelle
Jan 2017
#162
I don't know Goth. I suspect a good number of us, I know I have, edit a post because the phrasing
still_one
Jan 2017
#87
It is so hard to rise above isn't it? I kind of fell into that trap in this thread too. nt
JCanete
Jan 2017
#32
I am still thinking the majority will rule the DNC, it works better when the majority is in control.
Thinkingabout
Jan 2017
#50
Again, I'm arguing that Sanders people shouldn't be posting those threads anymore.
Ken Burch
Jan 2017
#107
It's enough to say that what was done re: PP and HRC and Lewis shouldn't have been done.
Ken Burch
Jan 2017
#119
If you look at the facts, sanders ran not to win the nomination but to get media coverage
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#124
The math is the math-Sanders was really effectively eliminated on Super Tuesday
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#133
If your goal is unity, then stop using a straw man and address the issues set forth on this thread
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#146
Do you understand that I was asking people to STOP posting the threads you object to?
Ken Burch
Jan 2017
#149
I do not object to these threads because such threads are too silly to take seriously
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#153
Sanders hosted DSCC retreats for financial sector donors when he ran for senate.
lapucelle
Jan 2017
#166
And yet several of your fellow Sanders supporters want to claim that Sanders is the defacto ruler
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#134
I never SAID he or his supporters were destined or pre-destined and you know it.
Ken Burch
Jan 2017
#139
Then tell your fellow Sanders supporters that Sanders is not the defacto ruler of the party
Gothmog
Jan 2017
#141
I didn't suggest that sanders did everything he could at the convention...
Docreed2003
Jan 2017
#147