2016 Postmortem

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)

93. This is **precisely** what liberal criminologists James Wright, Peter Rossi

Wed Dec 7, 2016, 03:57 AM

Dec 2016

and Gary Kleck have argued. Go to the source of the problem rather than stigmatizing an object. But we don't want to do any heavy lifting. We want the quick/easy fix -- which turns out to be no fix at all!

Perhaps the tragedy of Nov. 8th will shake off our ideological blinders.......perhaps not. After suicides are removed from the overall homicide figures, (60%) 2/3 of the rest of the homicides are criminal-on-criminal -- which suggests that our "War on Drugs" exists only to maintain the Drug Law Enforcement Salary Complex. Good luck trying to kill that beast!

Edited to add: The saying I've seen posted somewhat regularly here at DU goes something like this:

"If Democrats were to fight as hard for the working class as Republicans fight for the leisure class, the GOP would be toast within a few election cycles."

I'd amend that thought thusly:

"If Democrats were to fight as hard for the working class as Republicans fight for the leisure class while dumping dishonest and worthless gun restriction measures, the GOP would be toast within a few election cycles."

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Are we tilting at windmills re: national gun laws? [View all] geek tragedy Nov 2016 OP

We are now. Unless every single brown person in America goes out and buys some guns next week. TygrBright Nov 2016 #1

I agree bravenak Nov 2016 #3

National African American Gun Association Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #33

there are more blacks gejohnston Nov 2016 #38

Im glad to hear this jack_krass Dec 2016 #73

JHFC does EVERYthing have to be about race?, but since you brought it up, yes jack_krass Dec 2016 #74

Dont read my posts then bravenak Dec 2016 #75

funny you mention that gejohnston Nov 2016 #37

Simple and sad truth Cosmocat Dec 2016 #94

I think so bravenak Nov 2016 #2

In Wisconsin it was a big deal forthemiddle Nov 2016 #4

Yes Amishman Nov 2016 #5

Here we go again. yallerdawg Nov 2016 #6

Quite a lot of Democrats are gun owners. Kentonio Nov 2016 #8

depends on whether one thinks we need more true believers or more evangelists. geek tragedy Nov 2016 #10

Of course - "economic policy." yallerdawg Nov 2016 #19

Interesting that you bring up evangelism, given that "gun control" appears to be a religion for many pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #113

Gun control has never been a core Democratic value. benEzra Nov 2016 #32

These days it's a core Democratic value. yallerdawg Nov 2016 #34

No, it's still not. About 50% of Dems support, and 50% oppose. benEzra Nov 2016 #39

What's with the NRA/rightwing talking points? yallerdawg Nov 2016 #44

Here's a fact from the FBI: 13,500 murders annually, all rifles *combined* account for 270. benEzra Nov 2016 #46

Guns was the issue? yallerdawg Nov 2016 #53

It was *an* issue in my state. A big one. benEzra Nov 2016 #54

If you are a Democrat... yallerdawg Nov 2016 #57

Legal gun owners have been threatened here at DU, linked to at this OP: friendly_iconoclast Dec 2016 #68

Promising to take laws like the NY SAFE Act nationwide *is* a threat. benEzra Dec 2016 #69

What's with your contempt for the facts? NT pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #115

Question is what's common sense Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #56

The evening shift! yallerdawg Nov 2016 #58

Yep, some of us work Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #60

I'm not playing "Twenty Questions" with you. yallerdawg Nov 2016 #61

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #62

Maybe this one is busy shopping discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #121

"Common sense gun reform" "Whatever Dianne Feinstein wants" derby378 Dec 2016 #104

That's not what makes me a democrat. hollowdweller Dec 2016 #77

Spot on. And THANK YOU. pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #112

That's in today's world. I come from a long line of Democrats who worked in the ... spin Dec 2016 #82

Our Sheriff recomends every homeowner be armed Kilgore Dec 2016 #102

A few years ago a judge recommended rural people in an Ohio country... spin Dec 2016 #106

In our case its not budget cuts. Kilgore Dec 2016 #107

Unfortunately even in an area with an extremely low crime rate ... spin Dec 2016 #109

It's tempting to say just put it on the back burner, but.. Kentonio Nov 2016 #7

I don't think nuance plays very well on this issue. nt geek tragedy Nov 2016 #11

I think you're right if the message you put out relies on nuance. Kentonio Nov 2016 #14

To use nuance, you have to *understand* the issue, which many in the DC/NY bubble apparently do not. benEzra Nov 2016 #63

Here's the problem with that hollowdweller Dec 2016 #79

why focus on specifically urban gun owners? gejohnston Nov 2016 #40

Best place to start would be to **STOP LYING** about "assault weapons". pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #117

Do the Right Thing frazzled Nov 2016 #9

What is wrong with the current federal gun control laws? gejohnston Dec 2016 #66

Possibly. NCTraveler Nov 2016 #12

how can we help them without winning elections? geek tragedy Nov 2016 #18

"But as long as it's a wedge issue we're really never going to make headway on that." NCTraveler Nov 2016 #20

In 2008 and 2012 guns weren't a big issue. geek tragedy Nov 2016 #23

Here is where those proposals go off the rails. benEzra Nov 2016 #43

There's no point in pushing it to the state level if SCOTUS will Exilednight Nov 2016 #13

Yes. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #15

We might have got President Dumbya over that issue too. Buckeye_Democrat Nov 2016 #16

I guarantee in PA it was an issue. ebbie15644 Nov 2016 #17

Same in Ohio. Lots of gunnutters here, also. madinmaryland Nov 2016 #24

Yep. I saw a survey here a few years ago that indicated... Buckeye_Democrat Nov 2016 #25

It was a huge issue here in NC as well. (n/t) benEzra Nov 2016 #31

Absolutely Calculating Nov 2016 #21

it wasn't just Hillary's stances on guns ebbie15644 Nov 2016 #26

they were not being sued for the misuse of their products dsc Nov 2016 #29

The PLCAA doesn't block suits for criminal straw purchases, smuggling, or defective guns. benEzra Nov 2016 #30

And they were not protected from straw purchasing Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #59

Nobody was buying "thousands of Guns at a time" and reselling them Lee-Lee Dec 2016 #72

"(G)un shops were selling thousands of guns at a time to individuals" Cite, please friendly_iconoclast Dec 2016 #87

No cite or links after a week? It's obvious that claim is bullshit... friendly_iconoclast Dec 2016 #95

yes this and the anti-abortion crowd. n/t. okieinpain Nov 2016 #22

I think it did play a part in this defeat, and I tried to talk earlier to DU about that. Yo_Mama Nov 2016 #27

Yes. The truth is, Americans simply dont want government telling them what to do. Warren DeMontague Nov 2016 #28

Americans don't like being told what to do, but they do like the government telling others what to geek tragedy Nov 2016 #36

That's sort of my point, exactly. Warren DeMontague Nov 2016 #45

our party's issue isn't so much from people trying to regulate geek tragedy Nov 2016 #48

Certainly, and I wouldn't argue that we need to do away with things like building safety or the EPA. Warren DeMontague Nov 2016 #50

not only that, gejohnston Nov 2016 #41

+1 flying rabbit Dec 2016 #96

Well there were those who sarisataka Nov 2016 #35

Disagree, I say we double-down on sensible gun control, radius777 Nov 2016 #42

Define "sensible gun control." benEzra Nov 2016 #51

Obama didn't campaign on gun control though Calculating Nov 2016 #52

Gun control is an urban/suburban (metro) issue, radius777 Nov 2016 #64

So what happens if you get your wish? benEzra Dec 2016 #71

Democrats cease to become players in national politics, that's what happens friendly_iconoclast Dec 2016 #88

Echoes of the Temperance party. (n/t) benEzra Dec 2016 #89

Agreed samir.g Dec 2016 #86

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2016 #47

losing elections doesn't save a single child nt geek tragedy Nov 2016 #49

Losing the election and getting no gun control at all Calculating Nov 2016 #55

windmills? that sounds so ... 2015 0rganism Nov 2016 #65

Well, more than 2.5 million more people voted for Hill than the Don, but apparently.... Hekate Dec 2016 #67

So you don't, in fact, want to ban AR-15's and over-10-round magazines? benEzra Dec 2016 #70

"You"? You are holding me responsible for the mass insanity of this nation? Do you personally want Hekate Dec 2016 #78

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #80

This is *exactly* the type of misunderstanding that is so harmful to Dems on this issue. benEzra Dec 2016 #83

So I own military-grade weaponry. So fucking what. derby378 Dec 2016 #105

Well for the first time ever Flavius Aetius Dec 2016 #81

I don't get it then - what does an "assault weapons ban" do if it is not taking away someone's guns? jmg257 Dec 2016 #85

Irritate us about losing the election and add scant substance Kolesar Dec 2016 #76

Yep, there is. There is also a temporary forum for discussing things that hurt Dems last month... benEzra Dec 2016 #84

Yes hueymahl Dec 2016 #90

Kick. **Fantastic** OP geek tragedy! pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #91

Democrats for the last few decades have been strong on gun control and week on a social safety net killbotfactory Dec 2016 #92

This is **precisely** what liberal criminologists James Wright, Peter Rossi pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #93

The only constant is change, so I disagree that we should view this as an unsolvable issue or... CBHagman Dec 2016 #97

Change... benEzra Dec 2016 #98

Gun ownership itself is actually down quite dramatically. CBHagman Dec 2016 #99

Actually, all surveys but the non-anonymous GSS have shown steady ownership or recent increase. benEzra Dec 2016 #100

It's a civil liberties issue. MarvinGardens Dec 2016 #101

Background checks, yes. Semi-auto ban, no. Magazine ban, no. derby378 Dec 2016 #103

Yes. We can elections and save lives with "No Federal gun bans whatsoever" aikoaiko Dec 2016 #108

Kick. Great OP. NT pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #110

Are we tilting at windmills? No. We're cutting our throats. NT pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #111

LOTS of supposition here... LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #114

Hillary's position on gun control was politically naive outside of CA, NY and IL HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #116

Yes we are. Bans don't work. discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #118

Kicking for the benefit of members who believe that gun restriction is a political winner. pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #119

Gun restrictionists have become the secular "Bible thumpers" of the Democratic Party: friendly_iconoclast Dec 2016 #120

I think probably yes, from a purely pragmatic standpoint. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #122

Hurts the party's efforts to win elections, it's a wedge issue that the pukes distort & capitalize FreeStateDemocrat Dec 2016 #123

Gun control for Democrats.. virginia mountainman Dec 2016 #124