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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: There's no good reason to anathematize Bernie and his supporters. [View all]Gothmog
(162,487 posts)153. The Myths Democrats Swallowed That Cost Them The Presidential Election
Pushing the crazy claim that the DNC fixed the nomination process hurt the Clinton campaign. That claim was false http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044
The Myth of the All-Powerful Democratic National Committee
Easily the most ridiculous argument this year was that the DNC was some sort of monolith that orchestrated the nomination of Hillary Clinton against the will of the people. This was immensely popular with the Bernie-or-Busters, those who declared themselves unwilling to vote for Clinton under any circumstances because the Democratic primary had been rigged (and how many of these people laughed when Trump started moaning about election rigging?). The notion that the fix was in was stupid, as were the people who believed it.
Start with this: The DNC, just like the Republican National Committee, is an impotent organization with very little power. It is composed of the chair and vice chair of the Democratic parties of each state, along with over 200 members elected by Democrats. What it does is fundraise, organize the Democratic National Convention and put together the party platform. It handles some organizational activity but tries to hold down its expenditures during the primaries; it has no authority to coordinate spending with any candidate until the partys nominee is selected. This was why then-President Richard Nixon reacted with incredulity when he heard that some of his people had ordered a break-in at the DNC offices at the Watergate; he couldnt figure out what information anyone would want out of such a toothless organization.....
According to a Western European intelligence source, Russian hackers, using a series of go-betweens, transmitted the DNC emails to WikiLeaks with the intent of having them released on the verge of the Democratic Convention in hopes of sowing chaos. And thats what happenedjust a couple of days before Democrats gathered in Philadelphia, the emails came out, and suddenly the media was loaded with stories about trauma in the party. Crews of Russian propagandistsworking through an array of Twitter accounts and websites, started spreading the story that the DNC had stolen the election from Sanders. (An analysis provided to Newsweek by independent internet and computer specialists using a series of algorithms show that this kind of propaganda, using the same words, went from Russian disinformation sources to comment sections on more than 200 sites catering to liberals, conservatives, white supremacists, nutritionists and an amazing assortment of other interest groups.) The fact that the dates of the most controversial emailsMay 3, May 4, May 5, May 9, May 16, May 17, May 18, May 21were after it was impossible for Sanders to win was almost never mentioned, and was certainly ignored by the propagandists trying to sell the primaries were rigged narrative. (Yes, one of them said something inappropriate about his religious beliefs. So a guy inside the DNC was a jerk; that didnt change the outcome.) Two other emailsone from April 24 and May 1were statements of fact. In the first, responding to Sanders saying he would push for a contested convention (even though he would not have the delegates to do so), a DNC official wrote, So much for a traditional presumptive nominee. Yeah, no kidding. The second stated that Sanders didnt know what the DNCs job actually waswhich he didnt, apparently because he had not ever been a Democrat before his run.
Bottom line: The scandalous DNC emails were hacked by people working with the Kremlin, then misrepresented online by Russian propagandists to gullible fools who never checked the dates of the documents. And the media, which in the flurry of breathless stories about the emails would occasionally mention that they were all dated after any rational person knew the nomination was Clintons, fed into the misinformation.
In the real world, here is what happened: Clinton got 16.9 million votes in the primaries, compared with 13.2 million for Sanders. The rules were never changed to stop him, even though Sanders supporters started calling for them to be changed as his losses piled up.
Easily the most ridiculous argument this year was that the DNC was some sort of monolith that orchestrated the nomination of Hillary Clinton against the will of the people. This was immensely popular with the Bernie-or-Busters, those who declared themselves unwilling to vote for Clinton under any circumstances because the Democratic primary had been rigged (and how many of these people laughed when Trump started moaning about election rigging?). The notion that the fix was in was stupid, as were the people who believed it.
Start with this: The DNC, just like the Republican National Committee, is an impotent organization with very little power. It is composed of the chair and vice chair of the Democratic parties of each state, along with over 200 members elected by Democrats. What it does is fundraise, organize the Democratic National Convention and put together the party platform. It handles some organizational activity but tries to hold down its expenditures during the primaries; it has no authority to coordinate spending with any candidate until the partys nominee is selected. This was why then-President Richard Nixon reacted with incredulity when he heard that some of his people had ordered a break-in at the DNC offices at the Watergate; he couldnt figure out what information anyone would want out of such a toothless organization.....
According to a Western European intelligence source, Russian hackers, using a series of go-betweens, transmitted the DNC emails to WikiLeaks with the intent of having them released on the verge of the Democratic Convention in hopes of sowing chaos. And thats what happenedjust a couple of days before Democrats gathered in Philadelphia, the emails came out, and suddenly the media was loaded with stories about trauma in the party. Crews of Russian propagandistsworking through an array of Twitter accounts and websites, started spreading the story that the DNC had stolen the election from Sanders. (An analysis provided to Newsweek by independent internet and computer specialists using a series of algorithms show that this kind of propaganda, using the same words, went from Russian disinformation sources to comment sections on more than 200 sites catering to liberals, conservatives, white supremacists, nutritionists and an amazing assortment of other interest groups.) The fact that the dates of the most controversial emailsMay 3, May 4, May 5, May 9, May 16, May 17, May 18, May 21were after it was impossible for Sanders to win was almost never mentioned, and was certainly ignored by the propagandists trying to sell the primaries were rigged narrative. (Yes, one of them said something inappropriate about his religious beliefs. So a guy inside the DNC was a jerk; that didnt change the outcome.) Two other emailsone from April 24 and May 1were statements of fact. In the first, responding to Sanders saying he would push for a contested convention (even though he would not have the delegates to do so), a DNC official wrote, So much for a traditional presumptive nominee. Yeah, no kidding. The second stated that Sanders didnt know what the DNCs job actually waswhich he didnt, apparently because he had not ever been a Democrat before his run.
Bottom line: The scandalous DNC emails were hacked by people working with the Kremlin, then misrepresented online by Russian propagandists to gullible fools who never checked the dates of the documents. And the media, which in the flurry of breathless stories about the emails would occasionally mention that they were all dated after any rational person knew the nomination was Clintons, fed into the misinformation.
In the real world, here is what happened: Clinton got 16.9 million votes in the primaries, compared with 13.2 million for Sanders. The rules were never changed to stop him, even though Sanders supporters started calling for them to be changed as his losses piled up.
I was a delegate to the national convention and I saw much of this silliness first hand. This election was winnable but the sanders campaign did a great deal of damage that is the subject of valid commentary
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Ken, Bernie's not a sacred cow and above criticism. None of our politicians are.
emulatorloo
Nov 2016
#9
Bernie played a big role in electing trump and is a subject of valid commentary
Gothmog
Nov 2016
#145
Ya know, in all the canvassing I did for Hillary, I never once met a Bernie supporter who didn't
progressoid
Nov 2016
#21
Spooky, if they don't believe in those jobs coming back, then what the hell else...
Barack_America
Nov 2016
#190
I think we need to say "Hatred, no. Lies, no. Legitimate constructive critique yes".
Ken Burch
Nov 2016
#194
I met quite a lot who refused to bother to vote, or insisted on voting for Stein, despite literally
synergie
Nov 2016
#56
Did you ever stop and wonder why you had come to 'loathe' a decent, hardworking progressive?
Kentonio
Nov 2016
#204
I told you I was interested in your opinion, I didn't say I'd let it go unchallenged.
Kentonio
Nov 2016
#221
Who argued American voters do not get to select the candidates best representing their interest?
LanternWaste
Nov 2016
#136
Thanks to solid blue states, many of which were won by Bernie in the primary.
killbotfactory
Nov 2016
#51
she won more self identified democrats than sanders did during the primaries. nt
La Lioness Priyanka
Nov 2016
#97
Great. Then why did Bill and Hillary spend their last 30 years trying to appeal to
killbotfactory
Nov 2016
#200
so aside from you, most attacks on Bernie lately have hardly been about his ideas, wouldn't you say?
JCanete
Nov 2016
#108
those aren't challenges to his ideas. Those are challenges to whether or not a candidate should
JCanete
Nov 2016
#111
See, the thing is in my opinion a legitimate criticism is to say, lets actually follow the money.
JCanete
Nov 2016
#119
Ken, I think you are mistaken. I do not see anyone advocating the party move right.
emulatorloo
Nov 2016
#43
Bernie just meant add an equal commitment to economic justice TO that commitment.
Ken Burch
Nov 2016
#98
My assumption was that you are angry because he used that phrase in his speech the other day.
Ken Burch
Nov 2016
#125
Your assumption was incorrect. I am concerned about those who may willfully misread it.
emulatorloo
Nov 2016
#138
The center will attack the left with all they have. They hate us, for real.
DemocraticWing
Nov 2016
#20
1. Succinctly well put and essential for folks here to understand, who don't seem to see it.
JudyM
Nov 2016
#173
And the independent lost to a Democrat. It WAS the Democratic primary, after all
bravenak
Nov 2016
#44
It really doesnt matter since he is not a democrat anymore. Maybe he would have left the party
bravenak
Nov 2016
#94
That's right. There's hostility of a different order, and it's rarely about his ideas, except
JudyM
Nov 2016
#174
the meme of "Bernie as spoiler" is really already cemented in with millions upon millions
Grey Lemercier
Nov 2016
#211
Hmm. But it's OK to anathematize the DNC, the "establishment", "corporate Dems",
DanTex
Nov 2016
#63
I used to ADORE Bernie because I lived in Vermont for a long time and am familiar with him
NoGoodNamesLeft
Nov 2016
#64
Perhaps if all the ugly, disgusting stuff was never spewed at JPR it would be different
NoGoodNamesLeft
Nov 2016
#147
So because someone on the internet said something that you didn't like you're going to...
That Guy 888
Nov 2016
#160
The Bernie supporters who did all they could to prevent Trump from winning are not the ones I mean
NoGoodNamesLeft
Nov 2016
#192
Once again, tell Bernie. He can't seem to let the bitterness from the campaign go. nt
Maven
Nov 2016
#103
The guy energized millions of people who felt totally disenfranchized by the political system.
Kentonio
Nov 2016
#206
Totally agree. Obama agrees, too. Clinton agrees, too. No more scapegoating. As Obama says,
ancianita
Nov 2016
#83
The idea that only Bernie and his supporters are 'left' is ridiculous. Bernie is not a Democrat.
Demsrule86
Nov 2016
#87
Democrats should be thanking Bernie for actually revealing the voter base they now must win.
ancianita
Nov 2016
#93
Sanders may have been named the chair of the Budget Committee had the Democrats
lapucelle
Nov 2016
#110
Agreed. Except Schumer knows that Bernie will whip unity. Closing ranks is first. The mechanics
ancianita
Nov 2016
#115
Schumer sees Bernie as unifying because Bernie got the base excited, which made Schumer
ancianita
Nov 2016
#155
I think you're confusing the base with new voters and/or changing demographics.
lapucelle
Nov 2016
#164
I hear you, but I do think voter loyalty shifts, even with age, depend on their changing interests.
ancianita
Nov 2016
#165
Too bad, too. But too many threads reveal just that. We NEED all the allies and know-how we
ancianita
Nov 2016
#156
Why was it so hard for some to accept that those of us who pointed those things out...
Ken Burch
Nov 2016
#144
I don't expect that there's any problem with posting the criticisms in your post.
David__77
Nov 2016
#148
maybe if your posts kept getting alerted you would learn one is off limits.
Cobalt Violet
Nov 2016
#162
That's the whole point. This place is full of people looking to have their insecurities soothed
BlueStreak
Nov 2016
#167
It isn't "rational discourse" to accuse Bernie of calling on Democrats to stop fighting bigotry
Ken Burch
Nov 2016
#135
Don't get excited by these posts. I view them as Russian trolls probably trying to divide us.
apcalc
Nov 2016
#137
The only ones I curse are those self-identified progressives who refused to vote for Hillary
still_one
Nov 2016
#140
This election was a generational event, and it will take a generation to undo the damage done
still_one
Nov 2016
#227
Donald Trump is going to ascend to the Presidency of the United States of America.
AngryAmish
Nov 2016
#154
I have had two posts hidden in the "How Bernie's campaign contributed to Trump's win." thread.
LS_Editor
Nov 2016
#158
Yeah, that's a fucked up opinion to have. It's why I didn't even give that thread my grace.
retrowire
Nov 2016
#161
Stopping the looting at the top will continue to be my main issue. I'm not going to be interested
brewens
Nov 2016
#182
I've nothing against most Bernie supporters (other than a shitty attitude)...
Buzz Clik
Nov 2016
#193
Worry? I could not possibly care less about the Bernie bros. Their 15 minutes are over.
Buzz Clik
Nov 2016
#213