2016 Postmortem

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)

144. Why was it so hard for some to accept that those of us who pointed those things out...

Mon Nov 28, 2016, 07:56 PM

Nov 2016

...were doing so because we wanted the ticket to WIN?

Because we really were sincerely worried that it was slipping away?

That's why I kept begging the campaign to make a specific "TPP is dead" pledge on the stump and in the ads.

That's why some of us kept arguing for the idea that the ads and the speeches should mention that Bernie's campaign got a lot of things into the platform and that things had changed-doing so would not have disrespected Hillary in the slightest and it would probably have cut Stein's vote total by more than half(without losing us votes anywhere else).

None of that was said out of any desire to do harm.

We were trying to warn everyone that this wasn't a sure thing and that there were things we could and should be doing to shore the situation up.

WE WERE TRYING TO HELP.

You should have trusted us.

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There's no good reason to anathematize Bernie and his supporters. [View all] Ken Burch Nov 2016 OP

Yes, thank you Lizz612 Nov 2016 #1

Nor would it be possible FBaggins Nov 2016 #2

Nobody wants to purge anybody emulatorloo Nov 2016 #3

That's what all the attacks on Bernie are about. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #4

Ken, Bernie's not a sacred cow and above criticism. None of our politicians are. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #9

And another thing ... emulatorloo Nov 2016 #10

Bernie played a big role in electing trump and is a subject of valid commentary Gothmog Nov 2016 #145

That's simply not true. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #146

The Myths Democrats Swallowed That Cost Them The Presidential Election Gothmog Nov 2016 #153

I am not disputing your comment about the emails BUT nvme Nov 2016 #183

That was a rant piece written by a vindictive Clinton campaign staffer. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #196

Again you are wrong Gothmog Dec 2016 #232

With that line of thinking, answer me this... chwaliszewski Nov 2016 #170

False (nt) bekkilyn Nov 2016 #175

Someone made a post questioning Bernie got a bunch of recs so.... SaschaHM Nov 2016 #5

I never WANTED Clinton supporters anathemized. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #11

Really? Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2016 #28

Lol, sure Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #31

Thank you. budkin Nov 2016 #6

The Bernie supporters ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #7

I have nothing to do with JPR-please don't associate me with them. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #12

I never said you did. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #16

I totally agree about people radical noodle Nov 2016 #78

Ya know, in all the canvassing I did for Hillary, I never once met a Bernie supporter who didn't progressoid Nov 2016 #21

Ever read ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #22

Which accounts for how much of the electorate? progressoid Nov 2016 #40

What does this have to do ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #42

Another part of that group that couldn't be bothered to vote for her. progressoid Nov 2016 #46

Where is your evidence to support that hyperbolic claim? spooky3 Nov 2016 #157

In 2012, Obama got 93% of AA vote and 71% of the Hispanic vote. progressoid Nov 2016 #166

Why in the world would anyone be surprised spooky3 Nov 2016 #168

Spooky, if they don't believe in those jobs coming back, then what the hell else... Barack_America Nov 2016 #190

Misogyny? Kentonio Nov 2016 #202

Um, Milwaukee? Detroit? Cleveland? Barack_America Nov 2016 #188

So what? From what I've heard, there are about 200 folks over there. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #130

I don't care how many of them there are. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #141

Does it need to be a place where Hillary is given papal infallibility? Ken Burch Nov 2016 #143

I think the fact ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #150

I think we need to say "Hatred, no. Lies, no. Legitimate constructive critique yes". Ken Burch Nov 2016 #194

Thank you for your thoughtful response. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #198

Ah the old JPR nonsense.. Kentonio Nov 2016 #203

I met quite a lot who refused to bother to vote, or insisted on voting for Stein, despite literally synergie Nov 2016 #56

Creative allegation validating a bias, regardless of its veracity. LanternWaste Nov 2016 #134

Good thinking - I remember that sentiment before the general election. That Guy 888 Nov 2016 #60

Yup La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2016 #68

This message was self-deleted by its author sfwriter Nov 2016 #104

Call it venom, if you like. But that is my position. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #123

Why keep calling them Bernie supporters? bekkilyn Nov 2016 #178

You're absolutely right. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #181

I understand that reasoning, but... bekkilyn Nov 2016 #187

I totally agree with you. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #189

I wasn't all that thrilled with Hillary at first bekkilyn Nov 2016 #197

Well said. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #199

Privilege bekkilyn Nov 2016 #219

Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #124

You do understand ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #126

Did you ever stop and wonder why you had come to 'loathe' a decent, hardworking progressive? Kentonio Nov 2016 #204

Have you asked yourself that about Clinton? BainsBane Nov 2016 #209

Why would you assume that I loathe Clinton? Kentonio Nov 2016 #210

I think the reasons for the defeat are many BainsBane Nov 2016 #215

Ok, well you've made quite a few sweeping assumptions in there. Kentonio Nov 2016 #216

You are misinformed BainsBane Nov 2016 #218

I told you I was interested in your opinion, I didn't say I'd let it go unchallenged. Kentonio Nov 2016 #221

Didn't have to do any wonderin'. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #229

Who argued American voters do not get to select the candidates best representing their interest? LanternWaste Nov 2016 #136

This is just silly. SpareribSP Nov 2016 #169

Bernie wasn't the nominee. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #172

There were a bunch of factors as to why she lost killbotfactory Nov 2016 #8

And at some level, that may have been by design. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #14

Except polling showed she's was very popular with real world Democrats. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #15

... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #18

Voting overall was down among the population compared to last year killbotfactory Nov 2016 #25

And yet she won the popular vote anyway. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #26

Thanks to solid blue states, many of which were won by Bernie in the primary. killbotfactory Nov 2016 #51

This is the truth so many at the DNC do not want to hear hueymahl Nov 2016 #77

... or "cause I'm a woman and it's about time to break the glass ceiling." JudyM Nov 2016 #171

Yep, you can always win with 35% Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #32

Who said anything about winning w 35%? Nobody. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #34

You did, post 15 Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #35

Um no. I did not say we can win a national election w just democrats emulatorloo Nov 2016 #41

Again, you argue against a point no one has made. LanternWaste Nov 2016 #139

What's a "real world Democrat?" Exilednight Nov 2016 #84

That is literally not true La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2016 #69

That literally is true hueymahl Nov 2016 #79

she won more self identified democrats than sanders did during the primaries. nt La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2016 #97

Great. Then why did Bill and Hillary spend their last 30 years trying to appeal to killbotfactory Nov 2016 #200

Challenging bernie's ideas is not isolating him.. JHan Nov 2016 #13

so aside from you, most attacks on Bernie lately have hardly been about his ideas, wouldn't you say? JCanete Nov 2016 #108

Yes, mostly his strategy hurt the party. This is a legitimate criticism. JHan Nov 2016 #109

those aren't challenges to his ideas. Those are challenges to whether or not a candidate should JCanete Nov 2016 #111

The issue is political... JHan Nov 2016 #116

See, the thing is in my opinion a legitimate criticism is to say, lets actually follow the money. JCanete Nov 2016 #119

Okay.. however.. JHan Nov 2016 #120

I can tell that JCante's point was totally lost on you. Exilednight Nov 2016 #185

Anyway I sum up my issues this year in this thread... JHan Nov 2016 #117

I agree whole heartedly mythology Nov 2016 #17

I am a fervent Bernie supporter TheLibIn615 Nov 2016 #19

I also don't agree with all of Bernie's post-election choices Ken Burch Nov 2016 #37

Ken, I think you are mistaken. I do not see anyone advocating the party move right. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #43

No one is advocating abandoning the civil rights commitment. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #48

"Identity Politics" emulatorloo Nov 2016 #55

Bernie just meant add an equal commitment to economic justice TO that commitment. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #98

I'm not talking about Bernie. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #106

My assumption was that you are angry because he used that phrase in his speech the other day. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #125

Your assumption was incorrect. I am concerned about those who may willfully misread it. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #138

NAMES, please! BlueProgressive Nov 2016 #49

Triangulation, moving right to attract "moderate republicans" killbotfactory Nov 2016 #54

The center will attack the left with all they have. They hate us, for real. DemocraticWing Nov 2016 #20

We're all on the left here. Enough! Our goals and values are the same. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #23

Word! JHan Nov 2016 #226

Good post hueymahl Nov 2016 #80

1. Succinctly well put and essential for folks here to understand, who don't seem to see it. JudyM Nov 2016 #173

Well said. nt dflprincess Nov 2016 #179

1. VulgarPoet Nov 2016 #223

Stop. Demonizing. People.Who.Sincerely.Disagree. With .You. JHan Nov 2016 #228

I strongly disagree Gothmog Nov 2016 #24

In my opinion liquid diamond Nov 2016 #27

I am sure you accept Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #33

Well, a DEMOCRAT lost to the orange fuhrer elmac Nov 2016 #36

And the independent lost to a Democrat. It WAS the Democratic primary, after all bravenak Nov 2016 #44

Yes it was hueymahl Nov 2016 #92

It really doesnt matter since he is not a democrat anymore. Maybe he would have left the party bravenak Nov 2016 #94

Interesting. hueymahl Nov 2016 #113

IMO, the Democrats, should be democratic... immoderate Nov 2016 #82

Anathematize ??? grantcart Nov 2016 #29

Yeah, I think that's what it's supposed to be... GReedDiamond Nov 2016 #45

Ok, I changed it. Anything else to say here? Ken Burch Nov 2016 #52

The hatred of him and his supporters Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #30

The hatred of Hillary and her supporters sheshe2 Nov 2016 #39

No correction needed Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #59

That's right. There's hostility of a different order, and it's rarely about his ideas, except JudyM Nov 2016 #174

... mcar Nov 2016 #74

many look at Bernie and his Bros as the Nader of 2016, along with Stein Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #47

Then they are ridiculous, considering Bernie didn't run as a spoiler. Kentonio Nov 2016 #205

the meme of "Bernie as spoiler" is really already cemented in with millions upon millions Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #211

... LexVegas Nov 2016 #65

You seem to be one of the most prolific murielm99 Nov 2016 #38

THANK YOU so much for posting this! nt Raine Nov 2016 #50

:thumbsup: elleng Nov 2016 #53

Agreed. Thank you Arazi Nov 2016 #57

This was a "change" election and the DNC chose not to heed why. nt MaeScott Nov 2016 #58

They live in "conventional wisdom" like a large segment of our media. That Guy 888 Nov 2016 #61

Outside the top line, there was very little change. TwilightZone Nov 2016 #62

Plus 1. Thanks for being fact-based. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #105

The DNC could not overturn the will of primary voters La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2016 #70

Hmm. But it's OK to anathematize the DNC, the "establishment", "corporate Dems", DanTex Nov 2016 #63

I used to ADORE Bernie because I lived in Vermont for a long time and am familiar with him NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #64

Even with Bernie campaigning for Clinton he still gets blaimed. That Guy 888 Nov 2016 #66

Perhaps if all the ugly, disgusting stuff was never spewed at JPR it would be different NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #147

So because someone on the internet said something that you didn't like you're going to... That Guy 888 Nov 2016 #160

Bernie is too extreme left in his positions for my tastes NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #191

I didn't say Trump or the GOP would be at Standing Rock That Guy 888 Nov 2016 #201

And what of all the multitudes of Bernie supporters here? bekkilyn Nov 2016 #184

The Bernie supporters who did all they could to prevent Trump from winning are not the ones I mean NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #192

I'm aware of the hateful stuff but they aren't really Bernie supporters. bekkilyn Nov 2016 #195

Always with the unsubstantiated hyperbole La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2016 #67

Why would anyone do that? MineralMan Nov 2016 #71

Tell Bernie, who isn't a Dem and is still throwing shade at our nominee. nt Maven Nov 2016 #72

This message was self-deleted by its author sfwriter Nov 2016 #102

Once again, tell Bernie. He can't seem to let the bitterness from the campaign go. nt Maven Nov 2016 #103

The guy energized millions of people who felt totally disenfranchized by the political system. Kentonio Nov 2016 #206

I am a former Bernie supporter Lifelong Protester Nov 2016 #73

On average, my first week or so since DU has returned tells me: MadDAsHell Nov 2016 #75

Superb post. Kentonio Nov 2016 #207

yes... thank you for posting!! (n/t) berksdem Nov 2016 #76

Absolutely - but I would not frame it as "Bernie Supporters" BlueStreak Nov 2016 #81

"DU has always been strongly biased toward the DLCers." TwilightZone Nov 2016 #85

Many of those people were summarily banned from the site BlueStreak Nov 2016 #90

Yes, when they decided to support Trump over Clinton. DanTex Nov 2016 #121

I don't know of a single such case BlueStreak Nov 2016 #128

Check JPR, you'll find plenty. DanTex Nov 2016 #129

The problem goes back a lot farther. BlueStreak Nov 2016 #132

You asked for examples, I gave them. Have you looked at JPR? DanTex Nov 2016 #176

I have and I have seen nothing I would call "cheering Trump" BlueStreak Nov 2016 #180

Then you haven't looked. JPR is a pro-Trump site. DanTex Nov 2016 #186

That is not true. There is a diverse population at JPR BlueStreak Nov 2016 #220

LOL "DU in the center-right direction". DanTex Nov 2016 #222

You are misleading people on this BlueStreak Nov 2016 #230

Yes, now that Trump won, they aren't telling people to vote Trump anymore. DanTex Nov 2016 #231

"It isn't about Bernie. It is about backbone." liberalla Nov 2016 #95

But instead what we have is BlueStreak Nov 2016 #114

Totally agree. Obama agrees, too. Clinton agrees, too. No more scapegoating. As Obama says, ancianita Nov 2016 #83

Thanks, Ken. I had to trash one thread here. . . DinahMoeHum Nov 2016 #86

I don't blame Bernie supporters for our loss. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #89

The idea that only Bernie and his supporters are 'left' is ridiculous. Bernie is not a Democrat. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #87

This message was self-deleted by its author DinahMoeHum Nov 2016 #88

I think that Sanders will have to earn the support of Democrats. lapucelle Nov 2016 #91

Democrats should be thanking Bernie for actually revealing the voter base they now must win. ancianita Nov 2016 #93

Definitely! liberalla Nov 2016 #96

Sanders may have been named the chair of the Budget Committee had the Democrats lapucelle Nov 2016 #110

Agreed. Except Schumer knows that Bernie will whip unity. Closing ranks is first. The mechanics ancianita Nov 2016 #115

Schumer is a canny politician, so it will be interesting to see lapucelle Nov 2016 #149

Schumer sees Bernie as unifying because Bernie got the base excited, which made Schumer ancianita Nov 2016 #155

I think you're confusing the base with new voters and/or changing demographics. lapucelle Nov 2016 #164

I hear you, but I do think voter loyalty shifts, even with age, depend on their changing interests. ancianita Nov 2016 #165

Re Comey, Who appointed him? BlueStreak Nov 2016 #118

I'm so angry at Obama about both the Supreme Court and Comey. lapucelle Nov 2016 #142

Thanks Ken flamingdem Nov 2016 #99

k & r ancianita Nov 2016 #100

This message was self-deleted by its author sfwriter Nov 2016 #101

Too bad, too. But too many threads reveal just that. We NEED all the allies and know-how we ancianita Nov 2016 #156

I see no problem with criticism of Sanders or Clinton. David__77 Nov 2016 #107

We aren't allowed to criticize one of them. Cobalt Violet Nov 2016 #122

Who aren't you allowed to criticize? David__77 Nov 2016 #127

I received what amounted to a final warning after I simply pointed out BlueStreak Nov 2016 #131

Why was it so hard for some to accept that those of us who pointed those things out... Ken Burch Nov 2016 #144

Thank you for this post.......I relate to your sentiments *so deeply*. pablo_marmol Nov 2016 #177

I don't expect that there's any problem with posting the criticisms in your post. David__77 Nov 2016 #148

I have received it too. Cobalt Violet Nov 2016 #163

maybe if your posts kept getting alerted you would learn one is off limits. Cobalt Violet Nov 2016 #162

That's the whole point. This place is full of people looking to have their insecurities soothed BlueStreak Nov 2016 #167

Strongly agree! thank you! jimlup Nov 2016 #112

More allegations of attacks against a sacred cow. LanternWaste Nov 2016 #133

It isn't "rational discourse" to accuse Bernie of calling on Democrats to stop fighting bigotry Ken Burch Nov 2016 #135

Don't get excited by these posts. I view them as Russian trolls probably trying to divide us. apcalc Nov 2016 #137

Easier said than done. VulgarPoet Nov 2016 #224

The only ones I curse are those self-identified progressives who refused to vote for Hillary still_one Nov 2016 #140

Al Gore can relate.... apcalc Nov 2016 #225

This election was a generational event, and it will take a generation to undo the damage done still_one Nov 2016 #227

What purpose does it serve Lotusflower70 Nov 2016 #151

Meh, I have moved on. wildeyed Nov 2016 #152

Donald Trump is going to ascend to the Presidency of the United States of America. AngryAmish Nov 2016 #154

I have had two posts hidden in the "How Bernie's campaign contributed to Trump's win." thread. LS_Editor Nov 2016 #158

I anathematize KGB, FBI, KGB, the media, the GOP. But lately robbedvoter Nov 2016 #159

Yeah, that's a fucked up opinion to have. It's why I didn't even give that thread my grace. retrowire Nov 2016 #161

Stopping the looting at the top will continue to be my main issue. I'm not going to be interested brewens Nov 2016 #182

I've nothing against most Bernie supporters (other than a shitty attitude)... Buzz Clik Nov 2016 #193

Don't worry, the feeling is entirely mutual. Kentonio Nov 2016 #208

Worry? I could not possibly care less about the Bernie bros. Their 15 minutes are over. Buzz Clik Nov 2016 #213

Interesting, I don't remember Bernie being the one who just lost an election to Donald Trump. Kentonio Nov 2016 #214

I don't remember talking about Bernie at all. Buzz Clik Nov 2016 #217

If people are going to define themselves around a losing primary candidate BainsBane Nov 2016 #212