2016 Postmortem

mythology

(9,527 posts)

19. Because those blue collar manufacturing jobs aren't going to come back

Sun Nov 27, 2016, 11:21 PM

Nov 2016

Automation took those jobs, not trade deals. But making that argument is hard because it requires longer term thinking and some serious social questions. It's easy to do what Trump did and promise he'll bring the jobs back. But I don't see him managing to pull that off because his plan is to cut off trade deals which really haven't had nearly the impact on jobs as people think. Offering job retraining alone doesn't address things like the cultural impact of blue collar jobs to male (particularly white male) identity, of what it means for families, etc.

The question is once it's clear that Trump can't do what he promises, what happens next? Do those people not vote? Do they vote Democratic, third party? Vote for whoever offers the most "populist" message regardless of how viable their promises are?

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What is so impossible about fighting for blue collar jobs AND social justice? [View all] realmirage Nov 2016 OP

There was a time, sarisataka Nov 2016 #1

It was long ago. The Civil Rights Act meant we lost the white dudes forever. duffyduff Nov 2016 #2

Who are the sarisataka Nov 2016 #9

Uncomfortable truth you point out there hueymahl Dec 2016 #128

And yet somehow Obama won many of those votes in 2008 and 2012 mythology Nov 2016 #18

And the most racist republican out of the last three won the most white male vote percentage of all bravenak Nov 2016 #27

What does it tell us? They became racists in the last 8 years? Kentonio Nov 2016 #49

Tells us they prefer the racist, hateful, warmongering message at this point in time. Hoyt Nov 2016 #52

After voting for Obama? Really? Kentonio Nov 2016 #53

I'm not sure the same people who voted for Obama turned around a voted for Trump. Hoyt Nov 2016 #54

this is more accurate, the truth is the Obama coalition Exilednight Nov 2016 #55

A reading recommendation: Garrett78 Nov 2016 #57

Good article. The 538 quote had me spitting on the screen, but it's probably quite accurate. Hoyt Nov 2016 #60

They always were bravenak Nov 2016 #64

So they were racists when they voted for Obama over McCain? Kentonio Nov 2016 #66

Did they vote for Obama over mccain? bravenak Nov 2016 #67

We're talking about a swing of 10% in just 8 years. Kentonio Nov 2016 #68

They could be sexist. Probably are bravenak Nov 2016 #69

So if they're not racist they must be sexist? Ok then... Kentonio Nov 2016 #70

I still say both. Even a racist can vote for a black man if they think it benfits them personally bravenak Nov 2016 #71

Right, so based on that anecdote we should just assume they're all sexists and racists. Kentonio Nov 2016 #72

We know they are racist since they Voted to deport millions of muslims. bravenak Nov 2016 #74

Ok, so if we're writing off all Trump voters.. Kentonio Nov 2016 #80

Get the 3 million surplus votes in swing states this time by screaming about bravenak Nov 2016 #81

Nonsense...We've had three Democratic presidents since then.. whathehell Nov 2016 #29

In the 70s, I had an uneducated, bigoted, white neighbor who hated Nixon LeftInTX Nov 2016 #42

With the exception of temporarily losing the US Senate for six years in 1980 due to Carter's Midwestern Democrat Nov 2016 #48

GOP, CoC started Union busting in late 60's early 70's. With dae Nov 2016 #96

many of those Democrats were racists dsc Dec 2016 #124

Plenty of them voted for Obama. All this racist stuff when they didn't vote for a white Dem??? Yo_Mama Nov 2016 #90

Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #4

Always Democrats' fault, right? duffyduff Nov 2016 #8

Its attitudes like this that dooms us. Kilgore Nov 2016 #51

It's not only sarisataka Nov 2016 #15

Thank you for this realmirage Nov 2016 #20

So what you're saying... GummyBearz Nov 2016 #56

100. n/ t. whathehell Nov 2016 #107

Because those fighting for blue collar treat us as if we are not blue collar and as such do not bravenak Nov 2016 #3

Exactly. Some are shedding tears over white males. It has nothing to do with duffyduff Nov 2016 #5

I have no idea why people even want them back bravenak Nov 2016 #7

Because we want Democrats to win elections NobodyHere Nov 2016 #10

Wont win by getting their votes because you lose more votes like mine by trying to pander to them bravenak Nov 2016 #16

1 n/t. okieinpain Nov 2016 #47

1! AgadorSparticus Nov 2016 #94

1, and the pandering here would be the DNC distancing themselves from people like me..... uponit7771 Nov 2016 #100

You would think melman Nov 2016 #24

No kidding. More white people voted for Hillary than all non-whites combined. Buckeye_Democrat Nov 2016 #39

We already do both. DanTex Nov 2016 #6

It isn't just "working class whites" who blame someone else NobodyHere Nov 2016 #11

Actually, yeah, for the most part it is. DanTex Nov 2016 #12

Thank you. whathehell Nov 2016 #31

Not nearly as tired as those of us who are tired of racism and bigotry. nt JTFrog Nov 2016 #58

No, I'd say we're twice as tired whathehell Nov 2016 #76

We are tired of white people calling black folks race baiters for discussing the racism of donald bravenak Nov 2016 #77

Let me guess....All Lives Matter, right? AgadorSparticus Nov 2016 #89

Wrong whathehell Nov 2016 #91

Right....of course.... AgadorSparticus Nov 2016 #97

Lol..Nice try whathehell Nov 2016 #106

Rust Belt and WWC voters want jobs which we cannot promise or guarantee them LonePirate Nov 2016 #13

Yes , literally.. JHan Nov 2016 #26

How do you know the jobs aren't coming back? realmirage Nov 2016 #38

The all powerful profit motive dictates that the jobs are not coming back. LonePirate Nov 2016 #44

if that's the dem platform, get ready to lose some more. nt TheFrenchRazor Nov 2016 #84

Short of massive new PWA/WPA which Repubs would never pass, what do you suggest? LonePirate Nov 2016 #86

Blue collar jobs are gone and are not coming back oberliner Nov 2016 #14

So what's the answer? whathehell Nov 2016 #32

Universal basic income oberliner Nov 2016 #41

Sounds good, but whathehell Nov 2016 #45

Pretending that steel and coal jobs will exist in unrealistic as well oberliner Nov 2016 #46

Education in what the democratic party stands for , beliefs , positions etc Kathy M Dec 2016 #121

Yep whathehell Dec 2016 #122

Why not put people to work for that universal basic income? lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #65

Automation is/will be eliminating jobs at an ever increasing rate oberliner Nov 2016 #82

whose side are you on??? nt TheFrenchRazor Nov 2016 #85

Reality?...I don't think there is a side to this. it is just how our world is spinning AgadorSparticus Nov 2016 #93

I think you're all blaming the wrong people here. The Con LIED TO THEM promising napi21 Nov 2016 #17

Because those blue collar manufacturing jobs aren't going to come back mythology Nov 2016 #19

Making that argument is hard, too, when whathehell Nov 2016 #33

Those people are going to get even more resentful. They will end up on the street. AgadorSparticus Nov 2016 #92

Intersectionality is hard Lizz612 Nov 2016 #21

If you don't know how you are going to pay the rent/mortgage or buy your next meal NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #23

That's not what I mean, and you know it. Lizz612 Nov 2016 #25

That would only make sense if you think they voted against their interests just to hurt others. Kentonio Nov 2016 #50

Yes Lizz612 Nov 2016 #88

A hell of a lot of rural people in this country IS in financial crisis and HAS BEEN for a long time NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #63

Exactly...Too many here seem to not understand that and/ or not care. whathehell Nov 2016 #34

Yes it is.. whathehell Nov 2016 #108

Economic Justice IS Social Justice NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #22

Support unions, then. And quit supporting 'free' trade. PatrickforO Nov 2016 #28

Yeah, well, support from a democratic president may have helped too. whathehell Nov 2016 #35

Yes. Excellent point. n/t whathehell Nov 2016 #36

Exactly. Democratic office holders seem to have very little interest in even talking Nay Nov 2016 #62

Quite. The answer to that one is an actual economic development strategy. PatrickforO Dec 2016 #117

Yes, but we are hamstrung by the autonomy of the states; it keeps us from Nay Dec 2016 #118

Indeed. PatrickforO Dec 2016 #119

Not. a Thing...We must do both. whathehell Nov 2016 #30

well one of the big issues with this is that the WHITE blue collar working class Fresh_Start Nov 2016 #37

Horseshit. Occupy was black and white. Moral Mondays was black and white. SMC22307 Nov 2016 #98

and you know damn well the poster wasn't talking about progressive voices on labor but the uponit7771 Nov 2016 #101

Democrats already do both, but for tens of millions of people... Garrett78 Nov 2016 #40

1 uponit7771 Nov 2016 #102

Do something about unfair trade...get some decent paying jobs back... Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #43

Come on people, we already know its not trade deals who off these jobs its automation at the top uponit7771 Nov 2016 #103

the jobs were not automated away...that is a bullshit talking point. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #109

Yes it is.. (link inside)... uponit7771 Nov 2016 #110

seriously? automation is an issue, but brick and mortar factories have*moved* offshore; you can't de TheFrenchRazor Nov 2016 #115

The biggest factor is automation not off shoring, off shoring does hurt ... no doubt but the uponit7771 Nov 2016 #116

It's not impossible at all. jalan48 Nov 2016 #59

That would take up valuable fundraising time. n/t Orsino Nov 2016 #61

It's called a dialectical worldview Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2016 #73

Economic justice is a prerequisite to social justice. The latter is irrelevant without the former. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #75

The effects of the latter causes the former, mitigate the effects of the latter to get to the former uponit7771 Nov 2016 #104

a) identity politics is simply an attempt to be selective about economic justice. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #114

There was also a time when labor opposed affirmative action. muntrv Nov 2016 #78

This! TimeChaser Nov 2016 #111

A bunch of septuagenarians arguing about this is not worth our time or effort. randome Nov 2016 #79

Which septugenarians are you talking about? lapucelle Nov 2016 #105

Yes, Millennials had a major role in this mess. randome Nov 2016 #112

Third party and no show voters chose to be spoilers rather than heros. lapucelle Nov 2016 #113

it's a false choice, for sure. nt TheFrenchRazor Nov 2016 #83

It's a false narrative. Garrett78 Nov 2016 #87

Automaton is coming and we can't stop the robots. AgadorSparticus Nov 2016 #95

Progressive economic policies make big corporate donors nervous. nt killbotfactory Nov 2016 #99

Nothing, witness Hillary's policy pages BainsBane Dec 2016 #120

Nothing. Dem2 Dec 2016 #123

Resources and will are finite... Begabig Dec 2016 #125

Dems HAVE been fighting for blue collar jobs!! Adrahil Dec 2016 #126

They are tired of the corporate corruption of our politicians. Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #127