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mike_c

(36,624 posts)
73. I think we are talking about two different things....
Wed May 8, 2013, 08:26 PM
May 2013

I agree with you wholeheartedly that when students take the time to reflect and offer thoughtful evaluations of their experience in class, that can be valuable feedback that faculty can use to improve their teaching, although there is still the question about assessment quality.

What I'm talking about is the use of those evaluations in hiring, retention, promotion, and tenure decisions. I find that especially troubling because the veracity of anonymous evaluations cannot be confirmed, and I believe that some students routinely use the evaluation process for character assassination.

I spoke with a colleague this afternoon who was denied a tenure track position just weeks ago because of negative student evaluations he received during one semester two years ago (I'm my union's Faculty Rights Chairperson on my campus). In fact, his evaluations otherwise were uniformly positive-- he received the bad evals during a semester following a serious accident, after which he was frequently absent while he recovered. He was the dept search committee's first choice for the job, and received unanimous support from his colleagues, but the Dean declined to offer him the job and cited ONLY those few negative evaluations as his reason. We can argue all day long about whether that was right, or fair, or whatever, but the administration has complete control of the hiring process, so there is nothing I can do about it.

That is not an isolated example. I hear about several such instances every semester.

Here's another example. I underwent a five year post tenure review this year. As required, I submitted copies of ALL of my student course evaluations for all the courses I've taught during the past five years-- many hundreds of evaluations. Of course, some students were pleased with my classes and wrote glowing evaluations, others were angry or disappointed and wrote critically, and most fell somewhere between those extremes, but two anonymous students in one class during one semester wrote "the professor is a disgusting pervert who shows pictures of partially naked women in class." Both were phrased nearly identically, suggesting that they were collaborative. In any event, the entire, weeks long post tenure review process became centered on my needing to provide evidence to the personnel committees and administrators that I'm not "a disgusting pervert." Despite the circumstance that no student in any of my classes has any basis for making such an assessment of my personality, the burden of proof fell entirely upon me to show that it wasn't so. Those two student comments, which were likely deliberate character assassination, became the complete and utter focus of my personnel review, which is still ongoing. By the way, the class in question was General Zoology and the naked pics are anatomical diagrams of human female genitalia and reproductive systems provided by the textbook publisher and identical to diagrams in the text (I also showed corresponding illustrations of male genitalia and reproductive anatomy, but those were not cited as "perverted&quot .

Here's a quote from an article in TODAY'S student newspaper regarding class evaluations: "Lowe said 'It's really a popularity contest. I took a class and didn't like the professor, so I gave (his class) a bad review. But my friend liked the class so he gave them a good review. It doesn't mean I didn't learn anything. I just didn't like the professor."

Students who admit to such unprofessional behavior are unwittingly (and unjustly) taking part in hiring, promotion, tenure, and firing decisions. I understand the usefulness of high quality feedback from students-- I use that feedback to inform my future pedagogical decisions. But I still do NOT believe that students are in any way qualified to evaluate their professor's effectiveness or ability. That's even more true of K-12 students.

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No shit, right? Who, in the end, are the clients, the customers? NYC_SKP May 2013 #1
How does your comment relate to teacher evaluations by the students? Buzz Clik May 2013 #3
Students traditionally are powerless. Letting them evaluate teachers would go against tradition. NYC_SKP May 2013 #4
I don't know. I think that teacher evaluations by a bunch of hormone poisoned kids... Buzz Clik May 2013 #5
"hormone poisoned kids"????????? Addison May 2013 #7
You ever have a 14-year-old boy or girl in your home for more than 2 hours? Buzz Clik May 2013 #10
Folks said the same kinds of things about blacks Addison May 2013 #16
save that all kids are that way DonCoquixote May 2013 #27
Ageist. Neoma May 2013 #49
Brain research. LWolf May 2013 #54
Be careful Addison May 2013 #62
What the poster described is not pseudo-science. And to liken it to phrenology is quite bizarre. Squinch May 2013 #67
It isn't pseudo-science. LWolf May 2013 #74
Citing "brain research" Addison May 2013 #75
No. LWolf May 2013 #80
LOL!!!!!! Buzz Clik May 2013 #57
Seemed to strike a nerve Addison May 2013 #60
Yeah, you're trying to bait me. Buzz Clik May 2013 #61
You're baiting yourself, and I'm just reeling you in Addison May 2013 #63
We're CRK7376 May 2013 #56
Yep. Buzz Clik May 2013 #58
Yes, I do think most teachers of adolescents ask them on some basis to say what was good and what mbperrin May 2013 #77
Just a guess: you don't spend a lot of time in schools, right? Squinch May 2013 #26
Spent most of my life in schools Addison May 2013 #29
Your wording is very careful. In what capacity did you spend most of your life in schools? Squinch May 2013 #31
Not that I think it matters Addison May 2013 #40
And who said that children don't have thoughts and feelings and perspectives? Squinch May 2013 #46
Squinch, you said it was "silly" to ask kids . . . Addison May 2013 #48
I am not afraid of anything. But here are some realities: Squinch May 2013 #50
We're not arguing over the same topic Addison May 2013 #52
And if the children's opinions of their teachers becomes part of the evaluation, how are you going Squinch May 2013 #65
And should administrators never be allowed to fire a teacher? Addison May 2013 #68
On the say so of a child? Squinch May 2013 #69
Of course. Addison May 2013 #70
Really, you are too much. Have a nice day. Squinch May 2013 #71
Here's one. I teach seniors. Young lady spills a drink in class, so I hand her some paper towels we mbperrin May 2013 #78
And if she handed in excellent work, according to your standards, Addison May 2013 #79
If your attitude is shared by other adults in these kids' lives, then they don't have much chance. NYC_SKP May 2013 #9
And you'd be willing to let them have decision making power over your employment? Buzz Clik May 2013 #11
I would not give them sole power, any more than I'd use just one form of assessment for them. NYC_SKP May 2013 #12
Well, it is a crazy idea! marew May 2013 #32
Well said Addison May 2013 #14
Putting aside the disgusting fact that Cato provided this... Buzz Clik May 2013 #2
I do find the fact that Hentoff joined the Cato Institute one of life's great mysteries Addison May 2013 #6
There are teachers who should be banned from the classroom until the end of time. Buzz Clik May 2013 #8
Because being children- marew May 2013 #20
Wow is right Addison May 2013 #23
So you are comparing children to animals! Really? marew May 2013 #36
Nothing simple and primitive about reading Addison May 2013 #41
no mystery at all. hentoff is a winger. HiPointDem May 2013 #81
You have that right! marew May 2013 #17
I'm not suggesting teachers don't care Addison May 2013 #21
Of course they care! marew May 2013 #37
. Squinch May 2013 #22
Thanks marew May 2013 #39
I think it would be very easy to go through the Squinch May 2013 #42
You are so on target! n/t marew May 2013 #45
This is really very silly. Squinch May 2013 #13
What if we had no idea what kids "need" to learn Addison May 2013 #15
We have a pretty good idea what kids in grade school need to know. Even Bill Gates. Squinch May 2013 #19
I work with kids, too Addison May 2013 #28
What you are suggesting has nothing to do with giving children credit for their intelligence. Squinch May 2013 #33
Come on! marew May 2013 #44
Right! marew May 2013 #43
Excellent post! n/t marew May 2013 #18
+1 MichiganVote May 2013 #30
agreed 100 percent.... mike_c May 2013 #34
Well said Addison May 2013 #47
I think we are talking about two different things.... mike_c May 2013 #73
I've seen it countless times where a teacher is Squinch May 2013 #51
I agree with some CRK7376 May 2013 #59
Because DonCoquixote May 2013 #24
EXACTLY! marew May 2013 #38
Old issue on Long Island HockeyMom May 2013 #25
I was not involved in K-12 education.... chillfactor May 2013 #35
There isn't any reason not to have students evaluate teachers. FBaggins May 2013 #53
Ask a first grader "how many times they are called on to interact with the content," and his answer Squinch May 2013 #66
Stupidest idea EVER duffyduff May 2013 #55
Can we pick the students? My 1st graders love me. proud2BlibKansan May 2013 #64
Some college kids could do it just fine. Igel May 2013 #72
The evaluation of teaching skills is difficult at best, even when done by experts. Student may ladjf May 2013 #76
professsors greymattermom May 2013 #82
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