Men's Group

For one, I don't have a younger brother. Two, everyone in my family is pretty much on the same page socially and politically, except maybe for one sister of mine who has gone all Ron Paul and Alex Jones, but she doesn't have any kids. And we're spread out geographically.

Still, my general reaction to something that is fucked up is to say "hey; that's fucked up"

I didn't know who Luka Magnotta was until I googled the name after reading your post. I was dimly aware of the story, but didn't know they guy's name. I will say that things like child abuse, not to mention serial killers and seriously sick people, all existed prior to the internet, the mass media, and all the other alleged demarcation points of modern disintegration, alienation, what-have-you. Certainly, if you beat a puppy you will end up with a severely screwed up dog, and the same hold true, in a fashion, for human beings... all terrible although I think some people also just have faulty wiring; one of the saddest things I think I ever read was an interview with Jeff Dahmer's father; apparently (and I could be remembering it wrong) these guys did everything they could, they were caring, involved parents.. but the kid just had something terribly wrong with him upstairs.

I guess my other problem with some of the approaches in this material, and it ties into some of the objections I heard over the other thread would be the "lets talk to women about whats wrong with men/lets get men to fix whats wrong with men/if women could we would have already fixed whats wrong with men" idea. Starting with, again, the idea that there is something fundamentally "wrong with" men. I don't think there is.

I agree, again, that ideally we should help and nurture and allow people to be who they want to be, to actualize themselves fully, to express their emotions, etc. And kids should be raised in a loving environment and not treated differently because of gender, orientation, etc. But it seems far too easy for this topic (witness other exchanges in the thread) to derail into a laundry list of behaviors that some women don't like about men (men like to look at boobs! Who knew?) and why haven't the men adequately fixed these things to the specifications of the complaining women, and why are the men allowing their boys to do things, again, like look at the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue.

I'll have more to add on this later; gotta go right now.