Men's Group

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)

25. Work = Force times distance.

Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:20 PM

Jan 2014

As it pertains to gender issues, the distance the DU football needed to travel to even reach the point where we could agree on a set of facts and open communication could begin was huge.

With regard to issues of racial discrimination and disadvantage (which is easily demonstrable and widely supported here) that degree of force isn't necessary.

When all that is required is a nudge to mobilize support or refocus attention, I think blame, punishment and ridicule (all three of which are intrinsic to the "privilege" argument) are counterproductive.

As a concept, white privilege is generally true.

Net male privilege is not true. Is it counterproductive rhetoric? If the goal is equality, then yes. Is it advocacy? In that case maybe not. Feminist is apparently the chivalrous thing to be.

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If I actually thought there were "Anti-Feminists" in this group, I would kick them out. [View all] Bonobo Jan 2014 OP

The idea that disagreeing with one or a group of feminists, makes one anti-feminist is rubbish Major Nikon Jan 2014 #1

I'm always amused at the "You're not doing feminism correctly" snark from certain quarters ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jan 2014 #2

Feminism is advocacy for women. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #3

If I had time to get bothered about every ridiculous name some random Ginkus calls me on DU Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #4

As I've said before, I think we on DU generally agree on 90% of the really essential stuff. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #5

Because it is a personal war for some. nt Bonobo Jan 2014 #6

For instance, if one admits that systemic racism is still a problem in this country - which is a big nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #7

People invariably see things from their own vantage point. Bonobo Jan 2014 #8

I don't disagree with any of that. I understand perfectly well where some of these reactions come nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #11

Because the implication within the statement isn't their experience. westerebus Jan 2014 #10

Denying the mass-level effects of racism doesn't help working-class white folks in the slightest. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #12

Who is denying it? westerebus Jan 2014 #13

Maybe not in those exact words, but people reacting so defensively to discussions about racism nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #14

If you intend to frame this as either they are racist or they are dumb. westerebus Jan 2014 #15

Social class is a vitally important distinction as well. Some downplay it far too much nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #19

If you ask if racism exists, you will find broad agreement. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #16

All I'm saying is we each have to be able to articulate our reality honestly, without self-censoring nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #17

I think I've demonstrated my general broad support for "speaking one's mind" lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #18

And yes, harsh truth needs to balanced with a more conciliatory aspect. I don't disagree there. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #20

Work = Force times distance. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #25

You'll forgive me if I don't get too worked up over the "silencing" of so-called "heroes" Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #21

I didn't say intaglio was a hero. He was being a complete asshole to you and that wasn't fair. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #22

I do have a Devil's Haircut. Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #23

You don't appear to pull punches very often here. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #26

+1 Behind the Aegis Jan 2014 #31

Maybe above all else, I try not to wade in beyond my depth. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #34

Thank you, Warren. nt Bonobo Jan 2014 #24

I did not know the backstory. Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #30

Boy, you are verbose! Behind the Aegis Jan 2014 #32

I have no issues with the term "white privilege" Major Nikon Jan 2014 #9

I think we can agree - Dash87 Jan 2014 #27

I think you would knock them out libodem Jan 2014 #28

Once they paint you with that brush Bonobo Jan 2014 #29

You were probably libodem Jan 2014 #33

Good one! nt Bonobo Jan 2014 #35