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PavePusher

(15,374 posts)

50. Some more actual history for you....

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 11:07 PM

Apr 2012

He did not originally volunteer, his entire age-group was drafted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftwaffenhelfer

He later volunteered for the navy, at a time when anyone who didn't volunteer, was going to be drafted anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Grass

The 10th SS Panzer Division doesn't seem to have been connected to any atrocities, despite your pointed insinuation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10th_SS_Panzer_Division_Frundsberg

And note that here in para. 4, it was recognized that draftees in SS units held an exemption from assumption of war crimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen_SS

I'm really not sure how you think a not-quite-adult had much choice to NOT serve his country in such a war. Merely being on the wrong side is no particular indicator of political beliefs (did you miss the part of history where most Germans youths of that generation were pretty thouroughly indoctrinated and brain-washed without giving their permission?), or commision of any crimes or atrocities.

If you have any evidence that he was ever a commited National Socialist before or after the breaking of the Party during/after the war, please provide it now.

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Israel bars German author over poem critical of its nuclear arsenal [View all] bananas Apr 2012 OP

As Valerie Plame said, getting to global zero won't be easy. nt bananas Apr 2012 #1

German author? JerseyMac Apr 2012 #2

Life long Nazi. n/t Old Union Guy Apr 2012 #3

That's not true. tabasco Apr 2012 #6

yes Günter Glass did serve in an SS Panzer unit in 1944 when he was 17 didn't he? azurnoir Apr 2012 #8

Shame on you. JackRiddler Apr 2012 #10

So are all IDF members lifelong Irgun terrorists by your asinine and simple logic? Robeysays Apr 2012 #12

If someone was in Irgun and seems to advocate for Irgun positions decades later. Kurska Apr 2012 #25

Grass isn't advocating for a Nazi position. Ken Burch Apr 2012 #34

Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #72

That's twice you've made that accusation about me Ken Burch Apr 2012 #78

Bullshit Ken Burch Apr 2012 #23

Thank you for the truth, Ken Tom Ripley Apr 2012 #24

Doesnt matter. In the end its their country and they can say who can enter it and who cant just like cstanleytech Apr 2012 #52

Ok. Ken Burch Apr 2012 #57

He was a Nazi. You can argue he isn't one anymore. Kurska Apr 2012 #58

The poem wasn't antisemitic Ken Burch Apr 2012 #65

I dont know if he is or if he isnt and frankly I dont care nor cstanleytech Apr 2012 #60

Did you realize your entire post was a run-on sentence? Ken Burch Apr 2012 #64

Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #73

You just accused me of promoting something unspeakable, because I disagreed with you about a poem. Ken Burch Apr 2012 #77

Bullshit. Grass is a lifelong ANTI-Nazi Ken Burch Apr 2012 #79

Not true LeftishBrit Apr 2012 #80

Gunter the Nazi was Waffen SS. Ruby the Liberal Apr 2012 #7

wasn't it the Waffen SS Panzer unit and for how many years was that? n/t azurnoir Apr 2012 #9

Is this why so many good authors were repeatedly blocked from publication in the US? Trillo Apr 2012 #4

I guess Mordechai Vanunu was an anti-semite, too! provis99 Apr 2012 #5

Former Waffen SS member Guther Grass barred Riftaxe Apr 2012 #11

Then we should Bar all Israelis who severed in the IDF for there life long Irgun Affiliation. Robeysays Apr 2012 #13

Well first of Irgun isn't nearly the equivalent to the Waffen SS. Kurska Apr 2012 #26

they didn't bar him for being a Nazi. provis99 Apr 2012 #14

Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #74

It's not just Israel's nuclear arsenal that needs to be destroyed, WHEN CRABS ROAR Apr 2012 #15

Might as well wish for a unicorn as thats as likely to happen imo. cstanleytech Apr 2012 #20

Author of "The Tin Drum". no_hypocrisy Apr 2012 #16

Wow. Godwin's Law much?? Malikshah Apr 2012 #17

thanks you got it exactly right azurnoir Apr 2012 #31

Read the poem. WHEN CRABS ROAR Apr 2012 #18

hey israel way to take the high ground while murdering people worldwide starfox172 Apr 2012 #19

It's frustrating to me that there seems to be no distinction in the minds of some XemaSab Apr 2012 #21

You're right - judging Jews by Israel is like judging Americans by George W. saras Apr 2012 #22

True primavera Apr 2012 #36

This guy was Waffen SS. Ideological apples rarely fall far from their ideological roots. Kurska Apr 2012 #27

so criticizing Israels nukes is firing a broadside at the Jewish people? azurnoir Apr 2012 #30

Calling the Jewish state the world's greatest threat to peace is. n/t Kurska Apr 2012 #37

The word you are ignoring is "drafted". PavePusher Apr 2012 #35

Part of a wartime building company. Voluntered to join the Kreigsmarine. Kurska Apr 2012 #38

Which had little to do with National Socialist sympathies, if any. PavePusher Apr 2012 #43

Back track much? Kurska Apr 2012 #44

I never said he didn't volunteer for the military. PavePusher Apr 2012 #49

Hitler youth, volunteered for service, holds anti-semitic beliefs decades later. Kurska Apr 2012 #54

I ask again for cites for your claims, please. PavePusher Apr 2012 #61

He was a Hitler youth member Kurska Apr 2012 #62

You know nothing about Günter Grass reorg Apr 2012 #63

Because you say so? n/t Kurska Apr 2012 #68

So you are claiming that anti-semitism is in the ire of the beholder? Tom Ripley Apr 2012 #66

No I'm saying it is harder to prove as objective fact than membership in an organization. Kurska Apr 2012 #67

Cites to an internet post, and an Isreali newspaper... PavePusher Apr 2012 #70

Some more actual history for you.... PavePusher Apr 2012 #50

"wartime building company"? Cite, please. n/t PavePusher Apr 2012 #51

Luftwaffenhelfer Kurska Apr 2012 #55

Too bad for Israel Arctic Dave Apr 2012 #28

LOL. Showing my ignorance, I thought BlueMTexpat Apr 2012 #29

Israel’s policy endangers world peace’ — Jakob Augstein and Gideon Levy have Gunter Grass’s back JohnyCanuck Apr 2012 #32

If you're threatened by a poem, you are clearly and unequivocally WRONG. End of story. saras Apr 2012 #33

Many people at many times have felt threatened by Nazi's. n/t Kurska Apr 2012 #39

Gunter Grass is not really any more of a Nazi than the pope is RZM Apr 2012 #40

but don't you see Bodhi BloodWave Apr 2012 #41

It is pretty odd RZM Apr 2012 #42

Except he didn't just critize Israel's nuclear weapons. Kurska Apr 2012 #45

Does that mean that DUers who say the same thing are disguised as liberals too? RZM Apr 2012 #46

If anyone is saying Israel wants to kill every Iranian and is the primary threat to world peace Kurska Apr 2012 #47

I've never heard anyone here argue the first one RZM Apr 2012 #48

Grass did not make any of these assertions reorg Apr 2012 #53

I actually read the poem. Kurska Apr 2012 #56

Your posts don't reflect that reorg Apr 2012 #59

Except he isn't talking about a war spiraling out of control. Kurska Apr 2012 #69

He clearly references reorg Apr 2012 #81

It's a lie to justify genocide. Old Union Guy Apr 2012 #75

He didn't say that at all. You didn't even read it. arikara Apr 2012 #76

Citation needed JVS Apr 2012 #82

Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #71