Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
Latest Breaking News
In reply to the discussion: Texas attacks fluoride toothpastes as "dangerous," probes makers [View all]MadameButterfly
(2,939 posts)64. We aren't scientists but we are critical thinkers
I will look up the book but I'm not going to be convinced about anything by reading one book, no matter who wrote it. Everybody has opinions, and being smart in one area doesn't mean they're right about other things.
Some books have references, and those of us capable of critical thinking can deduce if they are making logical use of referenced material. Or at least whether the subject is worth further review.
The way science works - as I learned in school - is that people test ideas over and over. One study proves nothing. Ideas become accepted as facts only after they've been proven in many different studies over time.
You are of the belief that science is the only factor here. There are politics in science, and changing the established view is difficult. The fluoride issue has been rife with politics. Major corporations like Alcoa benefitted financially from fluoride being seen as a resource they got paid for rather than a waste they had to pay to get rid of. Alcoa was politically involved in the decision to fluoridate water. Reagan raised the allowed amount of fluoride in water to help said corporations. The Clinton administration lowered it again. Did that have to do with health and science, or politics? Fluoride was involved in nuclear bomb development. No politics there? Read the first chapter of the book I referenced and then tell me that all views about fluoride have been equally considered by the scientific community. History is rife with scientists who have been shunned for going up against the status quo but whose pioneering theories have triumphed in the end. Do you think there never has been a good theory that was shot down and never saw the light of day? I've seen how hard it is to get research funded (even before Trump).
There's been literal hysteria about fluoride in public water since the 1950s. It's hard to imagine a topic that has been more studied and scrutinized than this. The weight of the evidence is clear - it's beneficial and has few bad effects. Its benefit outweighs any risks.
Not all western countries have come to the same view. Even if you believe fluoride benefits outweigh risks, there is the issue of dosage. Not everyone can tolerate the same dose (infants and elderly need less) and not everyone drinks the same amount of water (people with kidney disease, for example, and marathon runners--drink more, and we are all drinking more water per public guidance than when water was first fluoridated). Some countries have opted for fluoride in salt or milk rather than forced medication in something we all can't do without. Fluoridation of water began before fluoridated toothpaste or mouthwash existed. It was initially believed you needed to ingest fluoride to get its benefits. Now conventional medical thinking is that the benefit is topical only, so the only benefit of fluoridated water is that it washes through the mouth on the way down. Once inside the body, it does harm to bones, brain, etc. You may say less harm than benefit--but I say lets keep it in the mouth (toothpaste or mouthwash) and avoid the harm altogether.
It sounds like you have distrusted fluoride for a long time and made sure that your children weren't exposed to it. It also sounds like you're an attentive, caring parent who made sure that your children's teeth were cared for. That's great!
Unfortunately lots of other children don't have that kind of care. I'm a believer in government public health, to help ensure the best care for everyone.
Yes, I was very focussed on my daughter's early brain development. (Read the first chapter of the book and tell me if you would even risk it with your child). I understand that not every child gets the care for their teeth they need. Our care for our daughter's teeth came out of neither of us getting the care we needed as children. Hygiene is necessary, with or without fluoride. Of course this is a difficult issue, if fluoride helps at all for populations that aren't educated enough to do this. But I think we as a country are capable of improving that education rather than forcing fluoride on all populations that drink water in un-measured doses. We should not be lulled into the belief that fluoridated water alone will save children's teeth. We should also have free dental care for everyone to encourage proper care and I wonder if that would be more or less expensive than paying corporations to put their industrial waste fluoride in our water.
I'm a strong supporter of universal healthcare. I wish the U.S. had guaranteed universal health care for everyone, paid through a pool of tax dollar
I agree, including dental care.
Some books have references, and those of us capable of critical thinking can deduce if they are making logical use of referenced material. Or at least whether the subject is worth further review.
The way science works - as I learned in school - is that people test ideas over and over. One study proves nothing. Ideas become accepted as facts only after they've been proven in many different studies over time.
You are of the belief that science is the only factor here. There are politics in science, and changing the established view is difficult. The fluoride issue has been rife with politics. Major corporations like Alcoa benefitted financially from fluoride being seen as a resource they got paid for rather than a waste they had to pay to get rid of. Alcoa was politically involved in the decision to fluoridate water. Reagan raised the allowed amount of fluoride in water to help said corporations. The Clinton administration lowered it again. Did that have to do with health and science, or politics? Fluoride was involved in nuclear bomb development. No politics there? Read the first chapter of the book I referenced and then tell me that all views about fluoride have been equally considered by the scientific community. History is rife with scientists who have been shunned for going up against the status quo but whose pioneering theories have triumphed in the end. Do you think there never has been a good theory that was shot down and never saw the light of day? I've seen how hard it is to get research funded (even before Trump).
There's been literal hysteria about fluoride in public water since the 1950s. It's hard to imagine a topic that has been more studied and scrutinized than this. The weight of the evidence is clear - it's beneficial and has few bad effects. Its benefit outweighs any risks.
Not all western countries have come to the same view. Even if you believe fluoride benefits outweigh risks, there is the issue of dosage. Not everyone can tolerate the same dose (infants and elderly need less) and not everyone drinks the same amount of water (people with kidney disease, for example, and marathon runners--drink more, and we are all drinking more water per public guidance than when water was first fluoridated). Some countries have opted for fluoride in salt or milk rather than forced medication in something we all can't do without. Fluoridation of water began before fluoridated toothpaste or mouthwash existed. It was initially believed you needed to ingest fluoride to get its benefits. Now conventional medical thinking is that the benefit is topical only, so the only benefit of fluoridated water is that it washes through the mouth on the way down. Once inside the body, it does harm to bones, brain, etc. You may say less harm than benefit--but I say lets keep it in the mouth (toothpaste or mouthwash) and avoid the harm altogether.
It sounds like you have distrusted fluoride for a long time and made sure that your children weren't exposed to it. It also sounds like you're an attentive, caring parent who made sure that your children's teeth were cared for. That's great!
Unfortunately lots of other children don't have that kind of care. I'm a believer in government public health, to help ensure the best care for everyone.
Yes, I was very focussed on my daughter's early brain development. (Read the first chapter of the book and tell me if you would even risk it with your child). I understand that not every child gets the care for their teeth they need. Our care for our daughter's teeth came out of neither of us getting the care we needed as children. Hygiene is necessary, with or without fluoride. Of course this is a difficult issue, if fluoride helps at all for populations that aren't educated enough to do this. But I think we as a country are capable of improving that education rather than forcing fluoride on all populations that drink water in un-measured doses. We should not be lulled into the belief that fluoridated water alone will save children's teeth. We should also have free dental care for everyone to encourage proper care and I wonder if that would be more or less expensive than paying corporations to put their industrial waste fluoride in our water.
I'm a strong supporter of universal healthcare. I wish the U.S. had guaranteed universal health care for everyone, paid through a pool of tax dollar
I agree, including dental care.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
66 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations

More anti-science to protect Reich Wingers "precious bodily fluids". ref. John Birch Society kooks
Bernardo de La Paz
May 2
#29
Insanity. Just ask any oral cancer survivor who's trying to save their teeth from radiation what they do every night.
sinkingfeeling
May 2
#37
Will the GOP just get this shit over with and declare that the world is flat already? Getting really fucking tired of
Karasu
May 3
#39
You do know that fluoride is naturally occurring and some areas have higher levels than others
travelingthrulife
May 3
#44
Those dangerous fluorides sneak around your teeth, go to your innocent brains and make you a Commonist.
Ping Tung
May 3
#41