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MadameButterfly

(2,939 posts)
64. We aren't scientists but we are critical thinkers
Sun May 4, 2025, 10:16 AM
May 4
I will look up the book but I'm not going to be convinced about anything by reading one book, no matter who wrote it. Everybody has opinions, and being smart in one area doesn't mean they're right about other things.
Some books have references, and those of us capable of critical thinking can deduce if they are making logical use of referenced material. Or at least whether the subject is worth further review.

The way science works - as I learned in school - is that people test ideas over and over. One study proves nothing. Ideas become accepted as facts only after they've been proven in many different studies over time.
You are of the belief that science is the only factor here. There are politics in science, and changing the established view is difficult. The fluoride issue has been rife with politics. Major corporations like Alcoa benefitted financially from fluoride being seen as a resource they got paid for rather than a waste they had to pay to get rid of. Alcoa was politically involved in the decision to fluoridate water. Reagan raised the allowed amount of fluoride in water to help said corporations. The Clinton administration lowered it again. Did that have to do with health and science, or politics? Fluoride was involved in nuclear bomb development. No politics there? Read the first chapter of the book I referenced and then tell me that all views about fluoride have been equally considered by the scientific community. History is rife with scientists who have been shunned for going up against the status quo but whose pioneering theories have triumphed in the end. Do you think there never has been a good theory that was shot down and never saw the light of day? I've seen how hard it is to get research funded (even before Trump).

There's been literal hysteria about fluoride in public water since the 1950s. It's hard to imagine a topic that has been more studied and scrutinized than this. The weight of the evidence is clear - it's beneficial and has few bad effects. Its benefit outweighs any risks.
Not all western countries have come to the same view. Even if you believe fluoride benefits outweigh risks, there is the issue of dosage. Not everyone can tolerate the same dose (infants and elderly need less) and not everyone drinks the same amount of water (people with kidney disease, for example, and marathon runners--drink more, and we are all drinking more water per public guidance than when water was first fluoridated). Some countries have opted for fluoride in salt or milk rather than forced medication in something we all can't do without. Fluoridation of water began before fluoridated toothpaste or mouthwash existed. It was initially believed you needed to ingest fluoride to get its benefits. Now conventional medical thinking is that the benefit is topical only, so the only benefit of fluoridated water is that it washes through the mouth on the way down. Once inside the body, it does harm to bones, brain, etc. You may say less harm than benefit--but I say lets keep it in the mouth (toothpaste or mouthwash) and avoid the harm altogether.

It sounds like you have distrusted fluoride for a long time and made sure that your children weren't exposed to it. It also sounds like you're an attentive, caring parent who made sure that your children's teeth were cared for. That's great!
Unfortunately lots of other children don't have that kind of care. I'm a believer in government public health, to help ensure the best care for everyone.

Yes, I was very focussed on my daughter's early brain development. (Read the first chapter of the book and tell me if you would even risk it with your child). I understand that not every child gets the care for their teeth they need. Our care for our daughter's teeth came out of neither of us getting the care we needed as children. Hygiene is necessary, with or without fluoride. Of course this is a difficult issue, if fluoride helps at all for populations that aren't educated enough to do this. But I think we as a country are capable of improving that education rather than forcing fluoride on all populations that drink water in un-measured doses. We should not be lulled into the belief that fluoridated water alone will save children's teeth. We should also have free dental care for everyone to encourage proper care and I wonder if that would be more or less expensive than paying corporations to put their industrial waste fluoride in our water.

I'm a strong supporter of universal healthcare. I wish the U.S. had guaranteed universal health care for everyone, paid through a pool of tax dollar
I agree, including dental care.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Dangerous to dentists? LiberalArkie May 2 #1
A dentist told me a decade or two ago DENVERPOPS May 2 #20
Also the acid in drinks. markodochartaigh May 2 #25
Well, they were proud to lean into the dumb redneck stereotype. Aristus May 2 #2
Facts matter! wolfie001 May 2 #12
fluoride mamacita75 May 2 #17
Like 8 years ago, I said that social media was going to kill us all. Initech May 2 #27
This is simply what happens when the extremist lunatics are allowed to take over. hadEnuf May 2 #3
Hhmmmm ... UpInArms May 2 #4
So, anybody checked to see how many dentists Paxton has in his family? OldBaldy1701E May 2 #5
Let's tell the GOP people that Jerry2144 May 2 #6
If Trump tells them it's safer, they'll go for it. thought crime May 2 #8
Texas Colgate, now with Mercury for a shining silver smile! Mawspam2 May 2 #7
The John Birch Society lives on! thought crime May 2 #9
Yeah, that old JBS chestnut Berlin Expat May 3 #38
looks like repukes have their new shiny object to distract their moronic base Skittles May 2 #10
So, next will be the milk, then the meats, then the cottage cheese, then bluestarone May 2 #11
We'll all be bartering when they're through nt wolfie001 May 2 #13
If your kids are stupid, it ain't the toothpaste, y'all Maeve May 2 #14
Oh but drinking bleach and ingesting horse dewormer -- just fine!!! Blue Owl May 2 #15
The John Birch Society 3825-87867 May 2 #16
I borrowed a library copy of "Dr. Strangelove" for this weekend. n/t Harker May 2 #18
Is there yet a study... BurnDoubt May 2 #19
Step-grandfather from Ozarks ... BurnDoubt May 2 #21
Ears ringing? BidenRocks May 2 #30
This is really going too far Figarosmom May 2 #22
First it's the water then the toothpaste Meowmee May 2 #23
How are Ken's precious bodlily fluids? progressoid May 2 #24
Stop listening to fucking Alex Jones! That guy is a dipshit loser. Initech May 2 #26
Once again, republicans joshdawg May 2 #28
More anti-science to protect Reich Wingers "precious bodily fluids". ref. John Birch Society kooks Bernardo de La Paz May 2 #29
Cigareets, Whiskey and wild, wild wimmens is next, eh, Junior? 3825-87867 May 2 #31
From a personal standpoint, Bayard May 2 #32
Texas is in the pocket of Big Denture Renew Deal May 2 #33
Idiocracy is getting faster to becoming our reality IronLionZion May 2 #34
*headdesk* sakabatou May 2 #35
In a legal sense: Aussie105 May 2 #36
Insanity. Just ask any oral cancer survivor who's trying to save their teeth from radiation what they do every night. sinkingfeeling May 2 #37
Will the GOP just get this shit over with and declare that the world is flat already? Getting really fucking tired of Karasu May 3 #39
Guys, this is an issue where there is ligitimate debate MadameButterfly May 3 #40
Take this crap somewhere else. yardwork May 3 #42
Link frm a Harvard study MadameButterfly May 3 #50
Page not found at your link. yardwork May 3 #55
It sounds like you are a scientist MadameButterfly May 3 #60
I'm not a scientist. yardwork May 3 #61
We aren't scientists but we are critical thinkers MadameButterfly May 4 #64
You've given me some things to think about. yardwork May 4 #65
Thanks you for taking the time to hear me out MadameButterfly May 5 #66
There are numerous falsehoods in this post. yardwork May 3 #43
some more guidance MadameButterfly May 3 #51
That editorial column (not a research study) is from 2016. yardwork May 3 #56
You don't know what I believe MadameButterfly May 3 #58
You do know that fluoride is naturally occurring and some areas have higher levels than others travelingthrulife May 3 #44
I grew up with fluoridated water MadameButterfly May 3 #53
"This debate exists on both ends of the political spectrum" ms liberty May 3 #45
I mean throughout the political spectrum MadameButterfly May 3 #49
Those dangerous fluorides sneak around your teeth, go to your innocent brains and make you a Commonist. Ping Tung May 3 #41
It is written on the box and on the tube if the toothpaste has fluoride in it. How is that misleading? Botany May 3 #46
The US has little manufacturing. Crest is manufactured in NC. intheflow May 3 #47
How does being an attorney general make one an expert on dentistry? milestogo May 3 #48
Boundless stupidity Old Crank May 3 #52
If the US is a village, Sneederbunk May 3 #54
It's become the Tinfoil Hat State. surfered May 3 #57
Texas is already a banana republic. Martin68 May 3 #59
Toothpaste that's fluoride free is readily available TexasBushwhacker May 3 #62
My body, my choice. COL Mustard May 3 #63
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