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In reply to the discussion: So...what exactly counts as "bashing the party" or "attacking Democrats" these days? [View all]NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)17. About that...
And you've got me wrong.
No, I don't think so. He's smarter than you give him credit for. And anyone who gives a quick glance at the initial responses here could easily tell that he's not the only one whose intelligence has been underestimated.
All I'm saying is that it's unwise to do things (say things) that insults people's intelligence. It rarely works out well (as I'm sure you already know.)
Nothing I'm doing is about promoting or defending Bernie as an individual
Interesting qualifier: "as an individual". That still leaves open many other things to "promote", doesn't it? (See? I can read.)
and I don't think he should run for president again.
You use that phrase a lot. And I do mean... A LOT. Even when it's not a part of the discussion, it gets tossed in. Apropos of nothing, somehow it gets repeated and repeated over and over. Why?
No, really... I do want to know. In all sincerity. Help me to understand YOU a little better. I really don't understand what good purpose this serves. Is it intended to be used as a distraction? Is it intended to guide the conversation in that particular direction? (Perhaps you're trying to establish your "I'm-a-loyal-Democrat" creds? I dunno. Can you explain?)
I just want us to be able to win the trust and full allegiance of his voters.
Which voters would those be? The ones who refused to vote for Hillary? The ones who voted for Stein? Tell us, WHO... which voters?
We can't do that without embracing a lot of his economic message and the critique his campaign offered of our political system.
Nonsense. All this effort trying to destroy the party* and remake it in the image of one person just to try an garner the favor of the 10% who voted for Stein? Good grief! GMAB!
All I'm saying is that that economic message was roundly rejected. Even a Fuller Brush man knows when it's time to stop knocking on the same door over and over and over again.
This type of behavior may be rewarding or fulfilling to extremists who have a "bone-to-pick" with the Democratic Party, but chasing after these disaffected dead-enders who make up the Stein-voting coalition just isn't worth the effort. It's also not worth the strife, distrust and division within our own ranks.
What good purpose does it serve to spend so much effort going after a mere HANDFUL of voters when the same effort could be spent getting an entire ROOMFUL of new voters?
What good purpose does it serve to cause so much division and distrust going after so FEW unreliable fringe voters at the expense of LOSING many-many more loyal and reliable voters?
*see reply #1 for more info. That's a well-written post that totally nails-it! You should really respond to that poster.
Why couldn't you just trust that the point of the OP was to get a clear answer on what people see as the limits here,
Because many people are smarter than you give credit for, that's why.
...because the people who use words like "trashed" or "attacking" have never made it clear what is acceptable discussion and what is intolerable.
Really? You don't know what those words mean? Do you need it spelled-out for you?
Honestly... I know you're smart, and you do not need it spelled-out for you. What I also know, however, is that some people like to play word-games and split-hairs. People should always use their best judgement, they should act their age, and not try to find clever ways to skirt the rules. They should not try to find ways to justify divisive behavior.
I edited out the "I won't respond" because people acted like that was hostile even though it was purely positive in intent.
What you wrote was hostile. Nobody was being unfair. Instead of blaming others for "misunderstanding your intent"... wouldn't it be more honest to simply admit "Hey, I made a mistake and so I changed my mind" rather than pretending that you were cornered into taking a choice that you'd have preferred not to do?
Here's the thing: People are smarter than they're given credit for and this has many similarities to a politicians "mistakes-were-made" excuse making.
Take it from an old lady... accept my "motherly" advice in the kind spirit it's being offered to you.

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So...what exactly counts as "bashing the party" or "attacking Democrats" these days? [View all]
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
OP
Let's call those who want radical changes radicals. We all want to improve everything politically,
Hortensis
Sep 2017
#34
The problem is that NO Republicans want to create a truly representative government.
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#55
NO. The problem of this discussion is those on the farther left who feel that way.
Hortensis
Sep 2017
#59
You haven't been here long, but I already expected you to twist and disagree.
Hortensis
Sep 2017
#68
There is a very real disconnect in your presentation and the real world. There is no common ground
JCanete
Sep 2017
#54
I don't have a website and I didn't block you. I truly want to hear what you have to say on this.
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#11
The message of the primary is not a rejection of all of the ideas of Bernie's campaign
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#86
Keith isn't saying that those ideas must be given up on. He didn't repudiate them himself.
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#92
The fact that you believe that doesn't obligate me to stop posting in support of those ideas.
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#96
I make no false claims/distortions. I don't lie. And I'm not in any "Stein faction".
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#100
Stop splitting hairs and playing word games. You're not helping your cause at all....
NurseJackie
Sep 2017
#105
Actually no. In the last few days, virtually any critique of anything the party does
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#24
And when I sent you that private message, I simply hadn't seen the sign that you didn't respond
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#33
More accurately, you haven't admitted that you've posted things bashing the party
mythology
Sep 2017
#46
I only did that because I didn't want to break my commitment not to respond in the thread.
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#61
I didn't block you, nor do I have a website. I'll look and see what happened.
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#12
I'm saying that people should respond on the merits of ideas-of ANYONE's ideas.
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#111
I've done a number of posts saying he neede to take a stronger antiracist stand in public
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#45
I do attack the right. It's just that 2016 proved that we can't win by attacking the Right.
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#29
I'll expand on it, then. I base my analysis on the fact that, in the 2016 campaign,
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#47
I wholly agree with you that there is no economic justice without civil rights
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#129
I think the line should be drawn between constructive criticism and scorched-earth criticism.
Willie Pep
Sep 2017
#66
Since when is a particular independent the only person who is qualified to speak on progressive
pnwmom
Sep 2017
#94
I never argued that Bernie was the only person who could speak on progressive principles.
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#97
I'm not concerned about Bernie as much as I am about winning over his supporters.
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#114
The problem is that Bernie himself is making it harder to connect with his supporters,
pnwmom
Sep 2017
#115
There were threads here with titles like "the voters will never elect a socialist Jew".
Ken Burch
Sep 2017
#113
An attack would be like when the (far) left wing of the party went after Kamala Harris.
LonePirate
Sep 2017
#101
bold faced lies about the DNC is not "open discussion" and neither are half truth when it comes
uponit7771
Sep 2017
#116
How about posting an out of context comment and insinuating the worst betrayal?
Hekate
Sep 2017
#127