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Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
25. I think you misunderstand
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 08:31 PM
Aug 2014

we would of course reach ancestors that are clearly not chickens - whether they be fish or archosaurs or some sort of pheasant / grouse / whatever living in North Vietnam in the Pliocene. We could definitely tell the difference between a chicken, and the fish at theroot of its (our) family tree.

But where would we draw the line between the modern chicken, and its most recent ancestor? How could we actually do so? we could certainly understand that one is one and the other is the other... but... we wouldn't actually be able to demonstrate this, even if we had every single individual involved in the process at hand.

There really is no solid point where "most recent ancestor" ends and "chicken" begins. Nor for that matter is there a point where "ancestor before that" ends, and "most recent ancestor" begins.

It's an unbroken continuum, all the way back to whatever amino soup was frothing around on earth's frosty shores way back before the Paleozoic

This is actually an important issue with tracking human evolution - we've got this awkward divide of "archaic homo sapiens" and "modern-type homo sapiens" for example - both of which could contain different species, or which all might be the same species with simple ethnic or individual variation.. .and this is without figuring contemporaneous human species we're finding in the area as well! Because what we're finding isn't actually a species-by-species catalogue of ancient human remains, but more of a... genetic cloud of multiple populations and individuals all swamping together over a period of about a million years. So yeah, we can tell the difference between a type-specimin "Homo erectus" and a human skeleton from last week.. .but... there's a gloudy gradient between the two that gets murkier and murkier the closer to th middle you get.

This is just the way it is for every species on earth. we define species by how differnet htye are from other species, but when you go back, the differences shed away as you draw close to common ancestors, so how do you keep the "species" designation? At what point does one species stop and new one begin?

Richard Dawkins has pointed out that gaps in the fossil record are pretty much the only thing that keeps Paleontologists and taxonomists from going completely fucking bonkers. Can you imagine if we actually DID have access to every individual ancestor of modern rabbits (or chickens?) all the way back to the Paleozoic? They would be impossible to classify!

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Love it! Evolution!!!!! nt valerief Aug 2014 #1
A better answer is, "how do you define 'chicken'?" Scootaloo Aug 2014 #2
Order Galliformes Xipe Totec Aug 2014 #9
see Jimlup's post downthread Scootaloo Aug 2014 #15
Chicken in Spanish is Gallina; Gallinacea, Gallus. Get it? nt Xipe Totec Aug 2014 #18
whoah BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #29
Yeah, biology is amazingly fun like that! Scootaloo Aug 2014 #31
I haven't read much on biology in a while BrotherIvan Aug 2014 #37
I'm wondering about the story I read the other day rickyhall Aug 2014 #41
And (and communal insects in general) are... weird Scootaloo Aug 2014 #42
Wow! That thar is one purdy rooster. hedda_foil Aug 2014 #24
K & R !!! WillyT Aug 2014 #3
Yeah, didn't we work out that answer before we were ten? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #4
Blasphemer!! progressoid Aug 2014 #22
Only a chicken can lay a chicken egg, though. KittyWampus Aug 2014 #5
That's precisely wrong. Igel Aug 2014 #26
Sounds like Omlettulate Conception... grahamhgreen Aug 2014 #52
That doesn't seem right. Chathamization Aug 2014 #53
K&R nt Tree-Hugger Aug 2014 #6
That's gross. n/t Yavin4 Aug 2014 #7
This also answers another important question: chollybocker Aug 2014 #8
What's the definition of "cross"? rhett o rick Aug 2014 #11
Eh, kinda but not strictly correct... jimlup Aug 2014 #10
I'll ask Superchicken when I see him. BlueJazz Aug 2014 #12
Looks to me like you are backing up his theory. If a chicken evolved from something rhett o rick Aug 2014 #13
Fair enough jimlup Aug 2014 #16
No he is correct MattBaggins Aug 2014 #17
No, actually... Scootaloo Aug 2014 #19
No actually MattBaggins Aug 2014 #23
I think you misunderstand Scootaloo Aug 2014 #25
So you're saying there could be several generations of "almost chicken" between chicken tclambert Aug 2014 #48
I would like to thank you DocMac Aug 2014 #49
That's not the definition of chicken or species mathematic Aug 2014 #20
The Creator must have created him/her/itself. Which implies the Creator is a time traveler. tclambert Aug 2014 #46
At the same time, there are numerous species that can interbreed. Igel Aug 2014 #30
So are the cacti ring species like california salamanders or arctic gulls? Scootaloo Aug 2014 #33
That's actually an antiquated definition of species. Jackpine Radical Aug 2014 #39
Horses, donkeys, mules. Each has a different number of chromosomes. tclambert Aug 2014 #47
Ask the same question to a Zen Master and he might say, rhett o rick Aug 2014 #14
Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny. Maedhros Aug 2014 #21
Yep Aerows Aug 2014 #27
I drew that conclusion a long time ago Martin Eden Aug 2014 #28
Egg = breakfast; chicken = dinner Capt. Obvious Aug 2014 #32
As a chef, i'm apalled Scootaloo Aug 2014 #34
Hey, I'm Portuguese Capt. Obvious Aug 2014 #35
Well, good! Eggs are the best part of the chicken! Scootaloo Aug 2014 #36
exactly a2liberal Aug 2014 #38
If life begins at conception, why did God feel... Purrfessor Aug 2014 #40
I came to that conclusion 20 years ago Man from Pickens Aug 2014 #43
Welcome to DU underpants Aug 2014 #45
Been saying that for years underpants Aug 2014 #44
I always thought it was the rooster. Jamastiene Aug 2014 #50
I would tweak it qazplm Aug 2014 #51
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