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In reply to the discussion: Hundreds of rabbis accuse Mamdani of fueling antisemitism over 'monsters' comment [View all]
Eko
(10,238 posts)244. Because the UN by its own charter can only recommend.
The UN recommended the partition for the states of Israel and Palestine and the Arabs did not agree. The resolution was non-binding on the parties and required both parties to agree.
When I said multiple people it wasn't ones that voted again 181, it was ones who also voted for 181 and said the UN did not have the power to create a state, only recommend.
Statement Made by the United States Representative at the United Nations (Austin) Before the Security Council on February 1948
The Security Council is authorized to take forceful measures with respect to Palestine to remove a threat to international peace. The Charter of the United Nations does not empower the Security Council to enforce a political settlement whether it is pursuant to a recommendation of the General Assembly or of the Security Council itself.
What this means is this: The Security Council, under the Charter, can take action to prevent aggression against Palestine from outside. The Security Council, by these same powers, can take action to prevent a threat to international peace and security from inside Palestine. But this action must be directed solely to the maintenance of international peace. The Security Council’s action, in other words, is directed to keeping the peace and not to enforcing partition.
The Security Council is authorized to take forceful measures with respect to Palestine to remove a threat to international peace. The Charter of the United Nations does not empower the Security Council to enforce a political settlement whether it is pursuant to a recommendation of the General Assembly or of the Security Council itself.
What this means is this: The Security Council, under the Charter, can take action to prevent aggression against Palestine from outside. The Security Council, by these same powers, can take action to prevent a threat to international peace and security from inside Palestine. But this action must be directed solely to the maintenance of international peace. The Security Council’s action, in other words, is directed to keeping the peace and not to enforcing partition.
https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1948v05p2/d57
A political settlement? That shows the UN was trying to get a political settlement agreed to by both parties.
I left out 12 because they did not have to power in the first place to do what you think they did. Article 1 sections 1 and 2 disprove that.
Article 1
The Purposes of the United Nations are:
1. To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;
2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
The Purposes of the United Nations are:
1. To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;
2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
One of the first things Resolution 181 does is say it is just a recommendation.
Recommends to the United Kingdom, as the mandatory Power for Palestine, and to all other Members of the United Nations the adoption and implementation, with regard to the future Government of Palestine, of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union set out below;
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/res181.asp
As far as the Security Council
During further debates at the Security Council over how to proceed, Austin (The US Rep to the UN) observed that it had become “clear that the Security Council is not prepared to go ahead with efforts to implement this plan in the existing situation.” At the same time, it was clear that the U.K.’s announced termination of the Mandate on May 15 “would result, in the light of information now available, in chaos, heavy fighting and much loss of life in Palestine.” The U.N. could not permit this, he said, and the Security Council had the responsibility and authority under the Charter to act to prevent such a threat to the peace. The U.S. also proposed establishing a Trusteeship over Palestine to give further opportunity to the Jews and Arabs to reach a mutual agreement. Pending the convening of a special session of the General Assembly to that end, “we believe that the Security Council should instruct the Palestine Commission to suspend its efforts to implement the proposed partition plan.”
More proof it was a recommendation that had to be agreed to by both sides.
The Security Council President, speaking as the representative from China, responded: “The United Nations was created mainly for the maintenance of international peace. It would be tragic indeed if the United Nations, by attempting a political settlement, should be the cause of war. For these reasons, my delegation supports the general principles of the proposal of the United States delegation.”[27] At a further meeting of the Security Council, the Canadian delegate stated that the partition plan “is based on a number of important assumptions”, the first of which was that “it was assumed that the two communities in Palestine would co-operate in putting into effect the solution to the Palestine problem which was recommended by the General Assembly.”[28] The French delegate, while declining to extend either approval for or disapproval of the U.S. proposal, observed that it would allow for any number of alternative solutions from the partition plan, including “a single State with sufficient guarantees for minorities”.[29] The representative from the Jewish Agency for Palestine read a statement categorically rejecting “any plan to set up a trusteeship regime for Palestine”, which “would necessarily entail a denial of the Jewish right to national independence.”[30]
Mindful of the worsening situation in Palestine, and wishing to avoid further debate, the U.S. proposed another draft resolution calling for a truce between Jewish and Arab armed groups that Austin noted “would not prejudice the claims of either group” and which “does not mention trusteeship.”[31] It was adopted as Resolution 43 on April 1.[32] Resolution 44 was also passed the same day requesting “the Secretary-General, in accordance with Article 20 of the United Nations Charter, to convoke a special session of the General Assembly to consider further the question of the future government of Palestine.”[33] Resolution 46 reiterated the Security Council’s call for the cessation of hostilities in Palestine,[34] and Resolution 48 established a “Truce Commission” to further the goal of implementing its resolutions calling for an end to the violence.[35]
On May 14, the Zionist leadership unilaterally declared the existence of the State of Israel, citing Resolution 181 as constituting “recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their State”.[36] As anticipated, war ensued.
On May 14, the Zionist leadership unilaterally declared the existence of the State of Israel, citing Resolution 181 as constituting “recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their State”.[36] As anticipated, war ensued.
unilaterally-used to indicate that something is done by only one person, group, or country involved in a situation, without the agreement of others.
The Security Council was still meeting over it and Israel unilaterally created the state of Israel.The Security Council was still trying to find a solution and one that was proposed was a “a single State with sufficient guarantees for minorities” that Israel rejected entirely. They did not wait for the Security Council to make recommendations to the General Assembly so there was no reason to even add in the part of the Security Council since Israel bypassed it entirely by creating the State of Israel unilaterally.
https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/10/26/the-myth-of-the-u-n-creation-of-israel/
As for you statement that the Security Council did not have to decide this dont forget this, 14 comes after 12 right?
Article 14
Subject to the provisions of Article 12, the General Assembly may recommend measures for the peaceful adjustment of any situation, regardless of origin, which it deems likely to impair the general welfare or friendly relations among nations, including situations resulting from a violation of the provisions of the present Charter setting forth the Purposes and Principles of the United Nations.
Subject to the provisions of Article 12, the General Assembly may recommend measures for the peaceful adjustment of any situation, regardless of origin, which it deems likely to impair the general welfare or friendly relations among nations, including situations resulting from a violation of the provisions of the present Charter setting forth the Purposes and Principles of the United Nations.
I have shown you so much proof that the UN could only recommend the plan in their own words. That the Security Council was still meeting and had not come up with a recommendation to the General assembly before Israel created their state. If the UN is what legitimized the creation of the state of Israel why did Israel not wait for them to create said state? The General Assembly sent it to the Security Council and was waiting on their recommendations.
This is what created the state of Israel. On May 14, 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the head of the Jewish Agency, proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel. Not the General Assembly, not the Security Council, not the UN. David Ben-Gurion did.
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Hundreds of rabbis accuse Mamdani of fueling antisemitism over 'monsters' comment [View all]
question everything
Friday
OP
"Say no to AIPAC" is not aimed at just Jews, it's aimed at everyone
muriel_volestrangler
Saturday
#72
People should not say "If the Jews would just do X, then people wouldn't hate them!"
muriel_volestrangler
Saturday
#91
What Israel is doing in Lebanon and GAZA is genocide. AND I will vote in primaries for the candidate who does not
Demsrule86
Saturday
#99
Aipac pays off our politicians and we send weapons to Israel as a result...we now
Demsrule86
Monday
#190
When people peddle in collective responsibility for hate received by an ethnic group
Sympthsical
Saturday
#109
Sympthsical - you lumped me in with the assholes that attacked that Jewish man in the park.
AloeVera
Saturday
#126
He should be brought to the Hague for Crimes against humanity. lebanese people and GAZA
Demsrule86
Saturday
#100
You surely feel the same about the leaders of Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran.
DavidDvorkin
Saturday
#116
No I don't They have been attacked by Israel and in Iran's case by us and Israel.
Demsrule86
Monday
#191
You do know that Netanyahu was sending money to those who did this and it took
Demsrule86
Monday
#200
So, for you, the problem is not the ideology of AIPAC. It's just that it's not 100% successful.
Intractable
Friday
#12
Oh, how is it not the case? I see no argument here. Just a vacuous statement.
Intractable
Friday
#14
Your supposed "truth" is irrelevant and is a feeble distraction from the main point.
Intractable
Friday
#19
You keep pointing at who is funding it when many people other than Jewish people fund it also.
Eko
Friday
#25
I've been reading his posts for years now. There's no misunderstanding from either of us.
Intractable
Friday
#52
Sometime, probably soon. The rabbis will learn the US ain't taking it so much anymore.
31j20b3
Friday
#11
Muslims are persecuted in Israel and what has been done in GAZA is a disgrace.
Demsrule86
Saturday
#106
Do you know how many have died in GAZA. And right now children are being targeted by
Demsrule86
Monday
#192
Israel is a small country why did it take almost and entire day to send help when Israel was
Demsrule86
Monday
#195
Ah yes, and everyone agrees the colonists in the US were great people because they kicked out
Eko
Sunday
#147
It was a territory like the Syria, Jordan, Lebanon etc of today. Yet only Palestine is not a nation today.
AloeVera
Sunday
#150
If they had only given up and let some people create a nation on the land they live on you mean?
Eko
Monday
#187
Sorry, that doesn't work on me either. It is what the UN says, nowithstanding decontextualized snippets
lapucelle
Monday
#207
Fyi for really in depth articles and research, the Israeli or B'Tselem can be a wonderful source..
Nanjeanne
Monday
#208
That's a document concerning a subcommittee's draft proposal for a unitary Arab state. The UN did not adopt it.
lapucelle
Monday
#222
Those resolutions were rejected by the full UN committee and never even made it to a General Assembly vote.
lapucelle
Tuesday
#233
Linking to a document whose resolutions were rejected by the UN isn't very good evidence
lapucelle
Tuesday
#234
The document that you linked to is the rejected proposed resolution submitted by a subcommittee.
lapucelle
Tuesday
#237
Why do you keep insisisting that the "Jewish people" created the state of Israel
lapucelle
Yesterday
#243
The only thing you've "proven" is that the UN Committee did indeed recommend
lapucelle
4 hrs ago
#249
I am well aware of the expulsion of Palestinians as well as their leaving voluntarily during the 1948 war.
Mossfern
Saturday
#71
700,000 Palestinians were expelled or fled, never allowed to return to this day.
AloeVera
Saturday
#130
Can't reach those laudable goals without the political will of both Israelis and Americans.
AloeVera
Sunday
#145
Fully 21% of the the citizens of Israel are Arab/Palestinian Citizens of Israel,
lapucelle
Monday
#184
US Gentiles have no problem with the Jewish population. In fact we love and welcome you to the Democratic Party
hookaleft
Friday
#33
Because Palestinians that go against Hamas are killed in front of their families.
Intractable
Saturday
#141
Mamdani accused AIPAC of pouring "millions of dark-money dollars" into efforts to turn the public against itself.
Nanjeanne
Friday
#16
You can stand by anything you like. You falsely attributed a quote to someone...
Violet_Crumble
Sunday
#167
not just centrist and conservative Dems but also hard RWer MAGAt rethugs, including 2020 seditionists and traitors
Celerity
Saturday
#59
Having not given it any thought - woah on supporting those Republicans! TY 4 info.
electric_blue68
Saturday
#112
So good to see you too DR. I am glad you are still on the board. I hope all is going well in your life. Hugz
Celerity
Monday
#198
The I/P forum tries hard to host these kinds of discussions, but in reality the independent forums
hlthe2b
Saturday
#96
Israel is involved in Genocide. They must be called out. And a fair number of those
Demsrule86
Saturday
#104
Well it hurts feelings when a message that's cherished and been pushed all your life
31j20b3
Saturday
#111
It's about groups putting money into the NY races. Yes, it had a wide spread.
muriel_volestrangler
Sunday
#148
The day had better be coming when AIPAC, and every other lobby organization is restricted from the money they can
lees1975
Saturday
#136
Not really; his reason for calling AIPAC monsters was explicitly their support for Netanyahu
muriel_volestrangler
Tuesday
#235