Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Ilikepurple

(794 posts)
16. But Book 8.13 the Analects contains advice to his students rather than an analysis of proper government
Fri May 15, 2026, 04:48 AM
May 15

At least that is how I understood it. I hesitate to be overconfident when speaking about Eastern Philosophy as I’m not close to being an expert.
Confucius has much to say about governance, but here it seems he’s more interested in giving advice about how to interact with good or bad states. I believe he’s advising his students that there’s virtue in engaging with and climbing the ranks of a just state, but to do so to enrich themselves in an unjust state is vice. That is, the shame referred to her resides in the student, not the government. Translating The Analects will always contain a degree of interpretation because of differences in syntax, culture, and available vocabulary.

The following are a few different translations of the relevant passage, but they all seem to be directed at guiding students along the way of the good.

When the Way prevails in the world, he appears; when the Way is lacking, he retires. When the state follows the Way, being poor and lowly is a cause for shame. When the state is without the Way, being rich and eminent is a cause for shame.

Confucius, & Watson, B. (2007). The Analects of Confucius. Columbia University Press.

When the dao prevails in the world,
appear; when it does not, hide.
When the dao prevails in a state, to
be poor and of low rank is shameful; when
the dao does not prevail in a state, to be
wealthy and of high rank is shameful.

Robert Eno

The Master said, “Have unshakable trust in [the moral path you pursue]. Love learning. Hold on to the way of the good until you die. Do not enter a state threatened with danger. Do not reside in a state embroiled in conflict. Show yourself when the moral way is evident. Seek reclusion when it is not. When the moral way prevails in a state, being poor and lowly is a cause for shame. When the moral way does not prevail in the world, having wealth and position is a cause for shame.
Annping Chin

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The level of hubris demonstrated by this administration is absolutely stunning. alwaysinasnit May 14 #1
He needs to watch a few Asian dramas. Baitball Blogger May 14 #2
Krasnov too lazy to prepare remarks... LakeVermilion May 14 #3
He is too stupid to be in that setting with intelligent people. Being ignorant about just GoodRaisin May 15 #15
Most of the business leaders understand the Chinese Johonny May 14 #4
"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, dalton99a May 14 #5
To clarify.. poverty is something for the country and its rulers to be ashamed of. ananda May 14 #8
I'm pretty sure the original meaning was living in poverty is shameful in a well governed country Ilikepurple May 14 #11
This is exactly what Confucius said. ananda May 14 #14
But Book 8.13 the Analects contains advice to his students rather than an analysis of proper government Ilikepurple May 15 #16
Yes, of course they did. mwmisses4289 May 14 #6
Most important is how the Chinese read Trump randr May 14 #7
"In my opinion, this trip was a disaster from top to bottom." BaronChocula May 14 #9
OF COURSE THEY DID!!! They are all totally clueless self-obsessed psychopaths. LymphocyteLover May 14 #10
I don't think they really care. They are devoid of decency or dignity. live love laugh May 14 #12
Guessing that GREED prompted the sycophant CEOs to go to China vapor2 May 14 #13
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Did Trump and his billion...»Reply #16