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Cirsium

(3,245 posts)
16. Illegal orders
Wed Nov 26, 2025, 01:18 PM
Wednesday

The My Lai massacre was it the only case of illegal orders in the Viet Nam war, far from it. Illegal orders and the commission of war crimes were routine throughout the conflict. I agree that people should know about it, but they should know the full picture. Focusing on My Lai give people the impression that the massacre was the extent of the crimes committed, which is far from true.

We know this from the Army's own records, the Vietnam War Crimes Working Group, impaneled in the Army Chief of Staff’s office. Their reports document reports of massacres, murders, rape, torture, assault, and mutilation. The purpose of the working group was not to prevent atrocities, not to punish wrong doers, but rather to get ahead of any stories that might lead to bad publicity and to bury the stories as much as possible.

We have 30,000 books in print on the Vietnam War, and most of them deal with the American experience. They focus on American soldiers, on strategy, tactics, generals, or diplomacy out of Washington and the war managers there. But I didn’t see any that really attempted to tell the complete story of what I came to see as the signature aspect of the conflict, which was Vietnamese civilian suffering. Millions of Vietnamese were killed, wounded, or made refugees by deliberate US policies, like the almost unrestrained bombing and artillery shelling across wide swaths of the countryside. That is, deliberate policies dictated at the highest levels of the US military. But any discussion of Vietnamese civilian suffering is condensed down to a couple pages or paragraphs on the massacre at My Lai.

...

What I was told in the countryside was beyond my ability to grasp, something that I could have never have gotten from the records. And I would talk to Vietnamese who would tell me about what it was like just to try and eke out an existence in the war zone. About having their home burned down five, six seven times. And then finally giving up rebuilding and starting to live a semi-subterranean life in their bomb shelter. About how they figured out ways to get out of that shelter, to get water or food or relieve themselves. And how their entire lives were just predicated on figuring out a way not to get killed. They would talk about artillery called down on a hamlet, and they would run into the bomb shelter. And stay there. And then this whole calculus would begin where they would try and figure out exactly when the right time to leave that shelter was. You had to wait until the artillery shelling stopped, but you couldn’t leave too soon or you were apt to be cut down by a helicopter gunship that was flying overhead. You had to make sure you weren’t caught in a crossfire between departing guerrillas and the onrushing Americans. But you couldn’t stay down there too long because the Americans were coming, and they would start rolling grenades into the bomb shelters because they saw them as possible enemy bunkers, fighting positions. There all of these decisions to be made, and it wasn’t just your life that depended on making it, but maybe your entire family. The whole family could get wiped out if you left a second too early or a second too late.

...

There was also an active trade in body parts in Vietnam. Ears were worn on necklaces, one ear or maybe even a whole chain of ears. Some guys wore these to show their combat prowess. Others would collect these ears and sell them to people who wanted to project this image. In one unit they were cutting off the heads of enemies, and anyone who presented it to the commander got an extra beer ration. In one case, a sergeant had cut off a head and he boiled the flesh of it, and then traded the skull for a radio.

They were forced into catering to the US war machine one way or another, and one of the prime ways was prostitution. A lot of girls who were sent to it, their villages had been destroyed and they were forced into the cities. And this was a way to provide for their families. The Americans had lots of money to spend and these were young guys, 18, 19, 20 years old. So it was this flourishing sex trade and then out in the countryside there was what seems to be a tremendous amount of rape and sexual assault. What I found was extremely disturbing. I recount a few cases where the sexual violence is really shocking. A lot of times I found myself, I felt I didn’t have the language to describe exactly what I found in the cases, because rape or even gang rape didn’t seem to convey the level of sexual sadism. These are extremely violent gang rapes, or raping women with inanimate objects like bottles or even rifles.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/vietnam-and-the-mere-gook-rule/

Recommendations

1 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I remember the My Lai massacre, it horrified me to think that US soldiers could commit MarineCombatEngineer Wednesday #1
Many of us do remember, but we're starting to age out. It's important not to forget. MineralMan Wednesday #3
I remember it well PatSeg Wednesday #10
Ha! Good names. Joinfortmill Wednesday #13
Great actors, Fox, Penn, Harvey, etc. MarineCombatEngineer Wednesday #14
After Calley's 1971 sentence to life imprisonment, Nixon ordered the Army to transfer him from the military stockade sop Wednesday #2
Yes. That was yet another misjudgment by a Republican President. MineralMan Wednesday #4
I remember when the Hersh story came out - it was horrifying. Ocelot II Wednesday #5
Yes, exactly! There is a measure of contempt for locals that creeps in MineralMan Wednesday #9
And this mis-administration is working on contempt for others within this country. erronis Wednesday #19
All trump has to do is keep his mouth shut Turbineguy Wednesday #6
We studied and dissected that incident for a couple long days ... MiHale Wednesday #7
Another good link...more in depth. MiHale Wednesday #8
The S**t usually hits the fan with the order to fire on your own countrymen. Mustellus Wednesday #11
I remember My Lai, but my first thought was Kent State. MLWR Wednesday #15
Excellent point Joinfortmill Wednesday #12
Illegal orders Cirsium Wednesday #16
"On November 12, 1969, Seymour Hersh broke the My Lai massacre story" -- Great DU post erronis Wednesday #17
I agree, but it was a provocation. gulliver Wednesday #18
I don't know as much about this as I should. ShazzieB Wednesday #20
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