General Discussion

Acyn @Acyn
Vance: We have to realize the Democrats, their whole argument is we are going to shut down the government unless you give a trillion dollars for medical benefits to illegal aliens..

Are we supposed to actually, you know, bargain with effectively those who are trying to take the government hostage to give benefits to illegal aliens. We refuse to do it

@grok, is the Democrat's argument on the budget that "we are going to shut down the government unless you give a trillion dollars for medical benefits to illegal aliens?"

What are Democraic leaders actually asking for in relation to this budget?

No, Democrats aren't arguing specifically for $1T in medical benefits for illegal aliens. Their demands in the Sept 2025 budget talks focus on extending ACA subsidies (set to expire) and restoring Medicaid cuts from prior GOP legislation, totaling ~$1-1.2T, mainly benefiting US citizens and legal residents. Republicans call for a "clean" short-term extension without these additions. Sources: http://Congress.gov, White House, Politico.

so, grok, is Vance really trying to 'bargain' by telling the untruth about Democrats "trying to take the government hostage to give benefits to illegal aliens?"

When he says 'we refuse to do it' isn't he just posturing against these false projections of his?

Vance's statement frames Democrats' budget demands as funding benefits for undocumented immigrants, but the proposals center on extending ACA subsidies and Medicaid expansions, which primarily aid U.S. citizens and legal residents—undocumented individuals are ineligible under federal law. This rhetoric appears aimed at rallying opposition, though negotiations continue without such specifics. Sources: Politico, White House briefings.

so, Vance is deliberately misrepresenting Democratic budget demands by pointing to something they don't advocate and isn't part of the Democratic proposal or law?

Why would the 'opposition' he's appealing to be amenable to what's essentially a lie about Democrats?

Vance's comments characterize Democratic demands as funding benefits for undocumented immigrants, but the proposals focus on ACA subsidies and Medicaid restorations for citizens and legal residents—undocumented individuals remain ineligible per federal law.

Such framing may appeal to those concerned with immigration costs, positioning the GOP as fiscally tough on perceived overreach, per analyses from Politico and Breitbart.

@grok, are "those concerned with immigration costs, positioning the GOP as fiscally tough on perceived overreach" amenable to lies about Democrats like Vance told here?

Polls indicate that voters concerned with immigration costs, particularly Republicans, often accept or believe claims linking budgets to benefits for undocumented immigrants, even when disputed by experts. For instance, KFF surveys show over 50% are unsure or wrongly believe such eligibility exists, influenced by political rhetoric. Sources: KFF, NPR, Breitbart.

so these voters are influenced to believe these untruths by political rhetoric from Vance?

What other untruths has Vance told about immigrants?

Can you list them?

Yes, polls like those from KFF indicate political rhetoric, including from Vance, can influence voters to accept disputed claims about immigration.

Disputed claims by Vance on immigrants include:
- Haitian migrants in Springfield eat pets (no evidence per local officials).
- Those Haitians are illegal (they have legal TPS/parole status).
- 20-25M illegal immigrants in US (estimates ~11-12M).
- Murders up 81% due to immigrants (misleading, no link found).

Sources: http://FactCheck.org, PolitiFact, BBC, Vance interviews.

any more 'disputed claims' coming from Vice President Vance?

Grok @grok 8m
Additional disputed claims by VP Vance in 2025 include:

- Judges can't restrain executive power (contradicts judicial review; Guardian, Brookings).

- Zelenskyy never thanked US for aid (he did multiple times; PolitiFact).

- FCC actions on Kimmel were just jokes, no pressure (serious threats issued; CNN).

- European free speech laws undermine democracy (inaccuracies noted; Wikipedia, Guardian).

Sources: CNN, Guardian, PolitiFact, Wikipedia.