General Discussion

Cirsium

(2,915 posts)

14. Secession as a remedy

Tue Sep 23, 2025, 01:21 PM

Tuesday

I can see no way that the fascists would let us go in peace, and millions of opponents of MAGA would be stranded in red areas. There were more Democratic voters in Texas than there were in every blue state other than New York and California, for example. Do we abandon those people?

Secession movements in Yugoslavia resulted in massive suffering and death and the dislocation of millions.

Ther is no easy way out of this nightmare. We must fight.

Physically speaking, we cannot separate. We can not remove our respective sections from each other, nor build an impassable wall between them. A husband and wife may be divorced, and go out of the presence, and beyond the reach of each other; but the different parts of our country cannot do this. They cannot but remain face to face; and intercourse, either amicable or hostile, must continue between them. Is it possible, then, to make that intercourse more advantageous or more satisfactory, after separation than before? Can aliens make treaties easier than friends can make laws? Can treaties be more faithfully enforced between aliens than laws can among friends? Suppose you go to war, you cannot fight always; and when, after much loss on both sides, and no gain on either, you cease fighting, the identical old questions, as to terms of intercourse, are again upon you.

Abraham Lincoln
First Inaugural Address
March 4, 1861

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I've finally come around on secession [View all] Joe Nation Tuesday OP

It's secession(the action of withdrawing formally from membership of a federation or body, especially a political state) Wiz Imp Tuesday #1

Secession. nt Wednesdays Tuesday #2

Thanks Joe Nation Tuesday #5

Folks knew what you meant. Public correction is rude. Joinfortmill Tuesday #54

I agree. MorbidButterflyTat Tuesday #60

2+347⅙ Oeditpus Rex Tuesday #70

I always take 2+347 and 1/6 as a complement. Irish_Dem Tuesday #84

... Oeditpus Rex Tuesday #93

There have always been turncoats and traitors to our Liberal Revolution. GreenWave Tuesday #3

In a time snowybirdie Tuesday #4

This TheProle Tuesday #6

Right BidenRocks Tuesday #50

Many, many counties do exactly this. Joe Nation Tuesday #7

Wondering snowybirdie Tuesday #13

Not many have done that, at least not peaceably... Wounded Bear Tuesday #23

The people of Yugoslavia didn't want to split Buzz cook Tuesday #53

Yugoslavia Cirsium Tuesday #27

Of those, I only see one as being "peaceful" breakups, Czechoslovakia... Wounded Bear Tuesday #56

Right Cirsium Tuesday #86

Ireland was invaded and colonized markodochartaigh Tuesday #78

I would like it too, but if you think down the road a bit ...it's a really bad idea PortTack Tuesday #37

I totally get your point. but if that happens, can those of us in Redstatistan seek political asylum in Bluestatistan? raccoon Wednesday #97

You are optimistic the nation will come together bronxiteforever Tuesday #32

I am already separated from most every member of my family by conflicting beliefs misanthrope Tuesday #57

We'd lose 95% of the geographic area somsai Tuesday #87

All food production, potable water, energy production, roads, railroads, mining, etc... pcdb Tuesday #89

Oops. Missed that one. Kingofalldems Wednesday #99

I wasn't advocating for the suggested form of secession misanthrope Wednesday #98

My Main Concern Deep State Witch Tuesday #8

Whole areas of blue states would become depopulated Kaleva Tuesday #51

I find it more likely those people in rural areas misanthrope Tuesday #59

With the possibility of individual states, red and blue, breaking up Kaleva Tuesday #61

Personally...(OK, if Aliens landing and made me King or even a Surf) I'd change a little... chouchou Tuesday #9

There is a petition going around in Canada right now, that is trying to have politicians both elected and Bev54 Tuesday #25

Sounds like a good idea. While it's true that the media has sometimes exaggerated the truth (To their liking) chouchou Tuesday #49

About 5% of the adult population watches Fox News Kaleva Tuesday #43

Really?! That's all?!! Who's stats were those electric_blue68 Tuesday #75

5 percent does feel rather low. Anyway, we know that quite a bit of political contests... chouchou Tuesday #88

I say let the stupid morons get what they deserve without dragging the rest of us down Blue Owl Tuesday #10

Big sticking point: national defense. Qutzupalotl Tuesday #11

Who can afford them? MorbidButterflyTat Tuesday #62

I was watching the Max documentary on Gwen Shamblin and had a similar thought Maru Kitteh Tuesday #12

Secession as a remedy Cirsium Tuesday #14

What happens to the sane people living in red states? Bayard Tuesday #15

Thank you. I wouldn't want to be left behind. hamsterjill Tuesday #21

I Always Think of This!... electric_blue68 Tuesday #74

The problem is that "People who support this fascist dictatorship" are your neighbors maxsolomon Tuesday #16

I worry becoming two different countries would just cause more problems LostOne4Ever Tuesday #17

There are a lot of Christian fundamentalists, fascists, racists and dumbasses along the west coast states. WhiskeyGrinder Tuesday #18

Secession will be difficult if the Constitution still cachukis Tuesday #19

The constitution does not matter to the existing regime or the supreme court for that matter. Bev54 Tuesday #29

That seems to be true, but there will have to be some cachukis Tuesday #63

Secession is not going to happen. LudwigPastorius Tuesday #20

but the federal government has been dismantled Tumbulu Tuesday #79

The US Armed forces have not been dismantled, in fact they are now receiving increased funding. Celerity Wednesday #96

Intermixture Nasruddin Tuesday #22

Yeah, not geographically divided like we were back in the 1850's... Wounded Bear Tuesday #26

Look up "soft secession" and see what you think of that tactic Hekate Tuesday #24

Yes sounds great and it's already happening Freddie Tuesday #45

Terrible idea. highplainsdem Tuesday #28

giving that kind of power to these fascist fucks is utterly ridiculous Skittles Tuesday #76

Absolutely! H2O Man Tuesday #91

In my fantasy world--Blue States would combine with Canada crimycarny Tuesday #30

The biggest problem is geography lapfog_1 Tuesday #31

This is why borders change and people migrate. Irish_Dem Tuesday #34

Yes, and it took centuries to bring warfare to a close relayerbob Tuesday #41

This is the goal. Irish_Dem Tuesday #33

Exactly correct relayerbob Tuesday #40

Putin is a true evil genius. His plan has been extremely successful. Irish_Dem Tuesday #44

Well, China relayerbob Tuesday #65

Yes I agree. Russia has turned into another pain in the ass ally for China. Irish_Dem Tuesday #66

It's China's gas station. thought crime Tuesday #82

I have no idea how it would work CanonRay Tuesday #35

That won't fix anything relayerbob Tuesday #36

This is Putin's wet dream AdamGG Tuesday #38

No thank you. What we needed 170 years ago Ilsa Tuesday #39

Only way is if we give up rule of law Tree Lady Tuesday #42

This again? mcar Tuesday #46

Thank you thank you! Traildogbob Tuesday #71

Don't know what "the Josh Holly" means but I love the sentiment! mcar Tuesday #81

Sorry Traildogbob Tuesday #83

I get it! Well said mcar Tuesday #85

This is not a serious idea and does not merit serious discussion. tritsofme Tuesday #47

Certain aspects of "soft succession" should definitely be more rigorously explored in blue states. Magoo48 Tuesday #48

That's always seemed like the silliest idea. Even if a state managed to steal tax dollars intended for the federal tritsofme Tuesday #55

This message was self-deleted by its author Magoo48 Tuesday #80

we went to war over secession bigtree Tuesday #52

That might be great for those of you in blue states arkielib Tuesday #58

Sounds awesome! But MenloParque Tuesday #64

Can we draw the new boundaries to include all blue cities? Patton French Tuesday #67

The problem is PCB66 Tuesday #68

According to The Washington Post, journalist Tim Russert invented these terms during his televised coverage of the 2000 Celerity Wednesday #95

No, no, fuck no. themaguffin Tuesday #69

Nope Wifes husband Tuesday #72

Pointless and Dangerous The Revolution Tuesday #73

Nations and empires come and go LS0999 Tuesday #77

The problem with that idea now is, we are MUCH more divided between urban vs. rural voters, Jack Valentino Tuesday #90

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Tuesday #92

Message auto-removed Name removed Wednesday #94

The Great American Breakup - a British Analysis (28 minutes) LVZ Friday #100

Wherever something is wrong, something is too big. -- Leopold Kohr Las Vegas Mixx Friday #101