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moniss

(7,900 posts)
68. A major problem is the "new" definition
Sat May 24, 2025, 12:49 PM
May 2025

of anti-semitism that has been demanded and pushed which goes very far in equating criticism of policy of the government of Israel with anti-semitism. There is also a very strong and deliberate effort by forces in Israel and around the world to conflate every single action of the government with being Jewish.

Both views are incredibly ignorant. Netanyahu isn't doing what he is doing because he is a Jew. He is doing it because he is a hateful human being in an elected office who has demonstrated himself to be corrupt and is acting in all manner possible to thwart accountability for himself and his wife. Jews may support him or not but if he were Catholic he would still be the horrible person he is and would be doing the things he's doing.

To conflate all of the actions of some of the horrible people in that government to being Jewish feeds a horrible stereotype and should not be done. Horrible people do horrible things because they are horrible people not because they are Jews. Once anybody insists on tying the entirety of Israel to being Jewish you can't readily expect to turn it off and on. But the "new definition" goes far to make that tie and it is used as a cudgel to beat back criticism of things the Israeli government is doing that are not because they are Jews but because they are horrible people.

People also tend to want to conflate Palestinians with being pro-Hamas or pro-Hezbollah etc. Horrible people do horrible things not because they are Palestinian but rather because they are horrible people. People also look at this conflict over land/resources as Jews versus Arabs. That is also improper because it leaves out the Christians and others in both Israel and the Occupied Territories. It is as faulty as those in the US of the rabid right wing who insist that the US is a Christian nation. It is not. That faith may dominate but their are many others and as a nation our founding document is structured to specifically give equality in standing of all faiths. The US falls short of that commitment very often but despite the reality of it the fact remains of the stated commitment and it is up to us to uphold it and fight for it in court and public opinion in the larger discussion in society.

Recommendations

11 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Thank you Mossfern May 2025 #1
There's been plenty of support for his actions in Gaza on DU (nt) muriel_volestrangler May 2025 #16
Ok, enough of this bullshit. I challenge you. Beastly Boy May 2025 #98
A quick search does yield this: snot May 2025 #107
How many of these were authored by DUers? Beastly Boy May 2025 #115
I started to apologize and thank you for the correction, snot May 25 #130
The OP is certainly applicable way beyond DU. Beastly Boy May 25 #133
24 hours later, and not a single response to my challenge Beastly Boy May 25 #134
That's bollocks and you know it. muriel_volestrangler May 25 #135
I didn't challenge you to send me mail. Beastly Boy May 25 #136
You challenge me and others to break the DU rules muriel_volestrangler May 26 #141
No I do not. Furthermore, I instructed you how to meet my challenge without breaking DU rules. Beastly Boy May 26 #143
And never say critics of Netenyahu's elected government are anti-Semitic. sop May 2025 #2
I haven't seen that, but I can't say that it doesn't exist Mossfern May 2025 #7
Critics of Israel's (Netenyahu's) rightwing government's Gaza policies are routinely accused of being anti-Semitic. sop May 2025 #9
Are they specifying Netanyahu and Right Wing Mossfern May 2025 #10
You're splitting hairs here. sop May 2025 #12
That is not true Mossfern May 2025 #15
Obviously people in the rest of the world do say "America" - that's what humans do muriel_volestrangler May 2025 #17
Sadly, these debates always devolve into someone being accused of being anti-Semitic, pro-Hamas or worse. sop May 2025 #21
Let's try it right here. yardwork May 2025 #20
I won't, but I never conflate Israel's and Netenyahu's rightwing government's actions in Gaza with being a Jew. sop May 2025 #24
Still haven't been accused of antisemitism.... yardwork May 2025 #26
Hours later, still no accusation of antisemitism. yardwork May 2025 #72
Exemplifies the issue krkaufman May 2025 #42
Honestly Mossfern May 2025 #45
A major problem is the "new" definition moniss May 2025 #68
Rec'd Mossfern May 2025 #69
Very thoughtful post as always. AloeVera May 2025 #95
I meant not the Christians or others based on moniss May 2025 #101
But then it's still a conundrum. AloeVera May 2025 #117
Yes and sadly there is no real solution now so all I moniss May 2025 #118
Agreed, with one caveat. Beastly Boy May 2025 #99
It is not just the IHRA language that makes up the moniss May 2025 #110
If I understand you correctly, it is not the IHRA definition of antisemitism that is the object to your objections. Beastly Boy May 25 #121
The point is correct about things that go beyond moniss May 25 #123
Let me begin with an acknowledgement that Beastly Boy May 25 #125
I am glad that you covered the subject of moniss May 25 #129
Here on DU? yardwork May 2025 #14
Maybe if you think these posts are "truly antisemitic" but they don't get removed muriel_volestrangler May 2025 #49
It's just bullying. yardwork May 2025 #78
Your posts in this thread are weak sauce - "I criticize Netanyahu - I dare someone to call me an antisemite" muriel_volestrangler May 2025 #81
Nonsense. yardwork May 2025 #82
So you won't point out an aspect of Israeli policy in Gaza that you condemn? muriel_volestrangler May 2025 #83
I'm not playing your game. yardwork May 2025 #91
This is no game. It's about ongoing deaths. muriel_volestrangler May 2025 #92
Well said. Violet_Crumble May 2025 #102
well... WhiskeyGrinder May 2025 #3
That's probably because Mountainguy May 2025 #36
What Hamas did on October 7 was monstrous. It does everyone a disservice to repeat falsehoods about it. WhiskeyGrinder May 2025 #47
It does everyone a disservice Mountainguy May 2025 #53
Citation on the babies being sliced apart and stuffed into ovens? WhiskeyGrinder May 2025 #61
There are eye-witness accounts Mountainguy May 2025 #74
Yeah from what I've seen, the claims about babies cut in half or put in ovens are routinely discounted. WhiskeyGrinder May 2025 #76
"discounted" Mountainguy May 2025 #79
That's not how proof works Buzz cook May 2025 #80
. WhiskeyGrinder May 2025 #85
I think I replied to the wrong post. Buzz cook May 25 #120
The proof is the eye-witness testimony Mountainguy May 25 #128
Once again. You are making a claim Buzz cook May 25 #131
Burned baby Mountainguy May 25 #137
Yes two babies were murdered. Buzz cook May 26 #138
Ok.... Mountainguy May 26 #139
Do you read the articles you post? No where in your post Buzz cook May 27 #145
When does claudette May 25 #127
It's been proven no babies were "sliced apart" womanofthehills May 26 #142
The link i posted shows the burned body Mountainguy May 26 #144
But Israel has been visiting violence and hatred on Gaza, since the very beginning of the nakba indusurb May 2025 #4
Please read a detailed account Mossfern May 2025 #5
He really needs to read it JustAnotherGen May 2025 #8
I hope he likes pizza Mossfern May 2025 #11
He's still here JustAnotherGen May 2025 #19
Perhaps because you called out the wrong "newbie" in your link? AloeVera May 2025 #39
You are using another poster (the one at your link) to insinuate that a poster in this thread (indusurb) attacked Biden Celerity May 2025 #37
You owe them an apology. They're not the poster you linked to... Violet_Crumble May 2025 #108
By the same token... AloeVera May 2025 #64
Post removed Post removed May 2025 #6
What are you talking about? From 1948 throgh 1967 it was Egypt that controlled and occupied Gaza. lapucelle May 2025 #22
Haaretz: Account From '56 Describes Slaughter and Rape by Israeli Troops in Gaza. Is It True? David__77 May 2025 #27
Did you read your link? The "account" is a work of fiction --- a short story. lapucelle May 2025 #30
Yes, it discussed Israeli censorship related to its 1956 actions in Gaza. David__77 May 2025 #32
Fun fact: the fictitious "account" occurred during the Suez Crisis when Egypt was occupying Gaza. lapucelle May 2025 #34
The 1956-57 occupation of the Gaza Strip : Israeli proposals to resettle the Palestinian refugees. David__77 May 2025 #35
Did you read the article you linked to? I did. lapucelle May 2025 #43
And . . . Richard D May 2025 #51
Gaza is Palestine. David__77 May 2025 #59
It's history is a lot more complicated than that. Richard D May 2025 #70
Isn't it more accurate to name the right wing parties harumph May 2025 #13
I think that many include "right wing" in their condemnation. Mossfern May 2025 #18
True. harumph May 2025 #29
There's nothing wrong with opposing Israel's social system. David__77 May 2025 #23
Sure, but don't forget Mossfern May 2025 #25
Sure those other ones suck as well. Eko May 2025 #86
Israel has a diverse population Mossfern May 2025 #87
I'm with you but the post was about Israel. Eko May 2025 #88
I wasn't aware that it was restricted Mossfern May 2025 #90
Huh. Eko May 2025 #100
Fair enough Mossfern May 2025 #104
Or if what happens in Israel is from some people in Gaza. You got it. Eko May 2025 #109
Not quite the same .... Mossfern May 2025 #111
I think its the same, the Mideast, North America. Can I ask what makes it not quite the same? Eko May 2025 #112
Cuba is not North America Mossfern May 2025 #113
I think it is. Eko May 2025 #114
More. Eko May 2025 #116
Didn't Israelis elect Netanyahu? NoRethugFriends May 2025 #28
Did all Americans elect Trump? Mossfern May 2025 #31
I understand that NoRethugFriends May 2025 #46
I agree with you Mossfern May 2025 #52
Didn't Gazans elect Hamas? Mountainguy May 2025 #40
Well yeah, but you knew that was nearly two decades ago. AloeVera May 2025 #71
Cool Mountainguy May 2025 #75
I'll simplify it for you. AloeVera May 2025 #84
Some people want any excuse to hate and attack Jews JI7 May 2025 #33
This message was self-deleted by its author krkaufman May 2025 #38
I'll buy that. NNadir May 2025 #41
However... Mark.Gray May 2025 #44
The buck stops where ? Wherefore art thou ? Where the bucks are Tetrachloride May 2025 #48
Post removed Post removed May 2025 #50
Wll, Hello!!! So nice of you to join the conversation. GP6971 May 2025 #54
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2025 #65
Israel is a democracy AlexSFCA May 2025 #55
You can blame the people who voted for him ... Mossfern May 2025 #57
the only poll that matter is the one on election day AlexSFCA May 2025 #60
So you're fine Mossfern May 2025 #62
the country is being defined by him here and abroad AlexSFCA May 2025 #63
I know Mossfern May 2025 #66
while true - it should be noted that it is EQUALLY true stopdiggin May 2025 #56
The United States committed genocide on indigenous peoples. Cuthbert Allgood May 2025 #58
People commit atrocities, commit murder, torture, starve, other people. Ping Tung May 2025 #67
a different party ruling Israel would not be doing this DBoon May 2025 #73
I always name Netanyahu. True Blue American May 2025 #77
Post removed Post removed May 2025 #89
Why are you posting this on DU. No one Nanjeanne May 2025 #93
Au contraire mon frere. I have read comments on this site that are basically a chorus of "From the River to the Sea" Noodleboy13 May 2025 #94
Or perhaps you ascribe what you read as pro Hamas in your mind only. Don't expect any responses to your Nanjeanne May 2025 #96
+1 Celerity May 25 #122
You mean pro freedom fighter. Lots of those around. nt LexVegas May 2025 #97
I think, like America's unconditional support for Israeli funding walkingman May 2025 #103
while that might be true... mike_c May 2025 #105
Is it -real or -rael GJGCA May 2025 #106
When I travel, I'm judged as an American and blamed ecstatic May 2025 #119
Sure, because when talking about Israel, it's NEVER "all" of Israel, including civilians, responsible for atrocities maxrandb May 25 #124
The majority of claudette May 25 #126
Yet, you have this: Mossfern May 25 #132
Apparently, a majority of Israelis are opposed to what their government is doing to Gaza. lees1975 May 26 #140
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