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Caliman73

(11,767 posts)
29. Anyone who shares this idea is as willfully ignorant and stupid as Trump is.
Mon Jul 20, 2020, 11:47 AM
Jul 2020

While it is true that symbols can take on meanings different from their original or widely accepted meaning, the reality is that you have to be willfully ignorant to take the flag that was the flag of the Confederate Virginia Army of the North, the Confederate Navy Jack, and eventually the symbol of opposition to the Civil Rights movement across the nation, as anything but a symbol of White Supremacy.

Some people will inevitably say, "It's a symbol of independence" or "Defiance", or "States Rights" or any number of other vague concepts but all you have to ask is "from what?", or "of what?", or "to what?" enough times and eventually it will have to land on slavery or White Supremacy but more likely the person who said it will curse at you and walk away because they know.

We can have a discussion on free speech and legislating the flag as hate speech, etc... I personally think that legislating symbols can have unintended consequences. Statues and the flag in public spaces is one thing. I think it is completely appropriate to not have statues glorifying traitors funded by our tax dollars and in our town squares. I also think that the flag should never fly at a function endorsed by any local, county/parish, state, or federal government entity. The simple fact is that that the flag and statues represent traitors to the United States. The Government does not typically fly any other flags of enemy nations at government endorsed functions, this should be no different. As for private citizens and functions, this is where the first amendment really is the crux of the situation. I read the response of another poster who did not accept that argument (more colorfully than I say here). The reality however is that the government cannot in broad terms, stop private people from putting symbols on their homes, carrying symbols at rallies, or saying things (even vile crap). In very specific ways, there are limits to speech and symbols, but when you start picking and choosing symbols (even though we all know what that flag symbolizes) for the government to ban, then eventually the symbol that you support (Rainbow Flag, BLM t-shirt, etc..) can become the target of government bans.

I would have liked the interviewer to have asked about why Trump came out so hot against Colin Kaepernick's use of free speech/expression by taking a knee during the anthem. I am sure he would have some stupid convoluted argument, but the reality is that Trump is just siding with ideas he supports and the legality and ethics of the situation do not matter to him.

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A proud symbol of treason to the United States PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 2020 #1
It's not even the full south, IIRC LisaM Jul 2020 #2
Yes, the flag supporters are not even aware of the history Rhiannon12866 Jul 2020 #11
A heritage of hatred. Hoyt Jul 2020 #3
To be more specific misanthrope Jul 2020 #17
So, Donnie, if freedom of speech is so sacred to you... Girard442 Jul 2020 #4
He puts official WH portraits into a store room Runningdawg Jul 2020 #5
All one can say is frazzled Jul 2020 #6
WHICH SOUTH? raging moderate Jul 2020 #7
HMMMM...he didn't know it was the Battle Flag of the Confederacy? Oh yea, he doesn't read. nt napi21 Jul 2020 #8
I read that the confederate battle flag was a different design. Blue_true Jul 2020 #34
I thought he didn't like losers? nt Betty88 Jul 2020 #9
He doesn't know-- or doesn't care-- that there are a lot of black people dawg day Jul 2020 #10
If Democrats loved the confederate flag, Dump would hate it. LakeArenal Jul 2020 #12
There is no comparable population that "loves the North"---or the East or the West. None of Atticus Jul 2020 #13
This message was self-deleted by its author Atticus Jul 2020 #14
Germany passed laws against nazi imagery. I propose we do the same Progressive Jones Jul 2020 #15
"I shit on 1st Amendment arguments" is probably better COLGATE4 Jul 2020 #18
You conveniently left out half of my statement to fit your narrative. nt Progressive Jones Jul 2020 #22
The qualifier about the confederate flag in no way changes COLGATE4 Jul 2020 #24
Try marching down my street with a confederate rag. nt Progressive Jones Jul 2020 #26
Hard to imagine calling yourself "Progressive" when you COLGATE4 Jul 2020 #27
Oh, I see the point. However, lines must be drawn. Confederates are traitors. Period. Progressive Jones Jul 2020 #31
I wish that had been done immediately Ilsa Jul 2020 #23
He just doesn't know. kskiska Jul 2020 #16
Unpatriotic. UnAmerican. That is what the Confederate Flag is to me. Imallin4Joe Jul 2020 #19
750,000 DEATHS.. in Civil War...thousands more injured permently...for what? Stuart G Jul 2020 #20
Nooses too? moondust Jul 2020 #21
Yeah, riiiight struggle4progress Jul 2020 #25
As someone else said: panader0 Jul 2020 #28
Anyone who shares this idea is as willfully ignorant and stupid as Trump is. Caliman73 Jul 2020 #29
I'm OK with this as long as it's historically accurate maxrandb Jul 2020 #30
Hey IDIOT Trumpster CRK7376 Jul 2020 #32
My family has lived in the south since 1665. GulfCoast66 Jul 2020 #33
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