Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

moniss

(8,728 posts)
1. A major limitation for us as humans in science matters
Wed Dec 24, 2025, 06:32 PM
Dec 24

and particularly in physics is that we as humans tend to always analyze through our senses and our "reality". In other words we progress through or create experiments to fit with our general thinking of what is length, height etc., what is "measurement", what is imaginable, what we physically see, hear, feel etc. We use this "screening" using the idea that things need to make sense. Yet what made "sense" by the science of the time 400 years ago is laughable now. Coming from an engineering education I always caution people to use the phrase "based on what we know so far" when talking about scientific matters. Engineers are taught that they don't know what they don't know and it is a truism to live by because there will always be more to know.

All while thinking we are getting to the heart of "how things are" when in fact if we open our minds and consider that what is in front of our eyes, the world our sense of sight let's us see is not what is "there" at all. Also what we can comprehend or imagine is a self limit that is not constrained by true reality. For example other life on this planet experiences the world/reality in ways we don't. Such as sensitivity to sound, light, force etc. and we have no idea of some of the how and why and what beyond our understanding of physics is there. Do conditions such as waves, forces etc. exist that we do not know because our instrumentation to "detect/measure" is inadequate? Are there more than the strong and weak forces we know?

In other words our endeavors in physics to "explain the world" may only be looking on a small part of what or how everything really is. There is no reason to think that atomic theory or particle physics precludes any other number of fascinating things about reality that we aren't even aware of yet in a similar way that our ancestors of 400 years ago had no idea atoms/particles existed. I thank you Uncle Joe for putting this up for me to ponder. Please don't tell anybody about me being here from the future. People keep pestering me for stock tips.

erronis

(22,666 posts)
3. More to cogitate. I think I feel influences from Godel, Escher, and Bach, altho it's been too many years.
Wed Dec 24, 2025, 09:10 PM
Dec 24

How can we describe the world we live in while we are part of the world and constantly interacting with it?

erronis

(22,666 posts)
2. Great explanation - I think. And I'm still undecided if I am living in this world.
Wed Dec 24, 2025, 09:07 PM
Dec 24

This bears a re-watch with more research into Bell and others. Thank you.

Brother Buzz

(39,577 posts)
6. In all my life, the only thing I've observed faster than the speed of light is...
Sun Dec 28, 2025, 06:25 PM
Dec 28

The time for a traffic light to turn green and the ass behind me to lay into his horn.

jfz9580m

(16,581 posts)
7. Thanks Uncle Joe
Tue Jan 6, 2026, 08:54 AM
Tuesday

I am reading two books both by one of the scientists in that video (Adam Becker). It is a pretty interesting book:

https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/grand-delusion/

Waves are certainly visualizable, but the world we live in, the world of laboratory experiments, does not present itself as made of waves. It presents itself, if anything, as made of particles. How do we get from waves to recognizable everyday stuff?

This, in a nutshell, is the central conundrum of quantum mechanics: how does the mathematical formalism used to represent a quantum system make contact with the world as given in experience? This is commonly called the measurement problem, although the name is misleading. It might better be called the where-in-the-theory-is-the-world-we-live-in problem.

For Bohr and Heisenberg, the measurement problem is how the unvisualizable can influence the observable (and hence visualizable). For Schrödinger it is how waves can constitute solid objects such as cats. In wave mechanics, the little planetary electron of the old quantum theory gets smeared out into a cloud surrounding the nucleus. If quantum mechanics provides a complete description of the electron—as Bohr insisted—this diffuseness is not merely a reflection of our ignorance about where the electron is, it is a characteristic of the electron itself. As Schrödinger memorably wrote to Albert Einstein, “There is a difference between a shaky or out-of-focus photograph and a snapshot of clouds and fog banks.” This unexpected (but perfectly visualizable) mistiness of the electron was fine by Schrödinger: after all, we have no direct experience of electrons to contradict it. But the dynamics of the theory could not confine the smeariness to microscopic scale. In certain experimental situations, the haziness of the electron would get amplified up to everyday scales. The electron that is nowhere-in-particular gives birth to a cat that is no-state-of-health-in-particular. Schrödinger found this result manifestly absurd: something must have gone wrong somewhere in the physics.


It is certainly a good place to restart..

I first found Becker via the rare good journalist - a fellow traveller ;-/, Chris Ketcham..he is one of us…far left radical blah blah..so I was pleased to see a scientist on his site:
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-mad-religion-of-technological-salvation/

I felt a bit less lonely after I saw that. Because I wanted to be a scientist at some point, but science got more Googlized/Facebookified/Musky and militarized, and turns into whatever this is:

https://www.ted.com/talks/frances_s_chance_are_insect_brains_the_secret_to_great_ai

https://www.ted.com/talks/gautam_shah_can_the_metaverse_bring_us_closer_to_wildlife

I am fairly sure the Metaverse can bring you closer to a draconian lawsuit filed by Nimby homeowners like me. It is one thing to take over science and society. It is another to try someone’s home or street. I grimly thought of Ketcham again. Nandita Bajaj is another fellow traveller in this bleak wasteland of general unspeakable awfulness:
https://www.populationbalance.org/essays/eat-pray-pollute


Uncle Joe

(64,239 posts)
8. I'm thinking our brains are geared toward detecting both on a continuum leading me to two conclusions
Tue Jan 6, 2026, 02:18 PM
Tuesday

Cats detect waves better than particles versus a human's ability and people with photographic memories detect particles over waves more so than the average person all on a subconscious level.



Latest Discussions»Culture Forums»Science»There Is Something Faster...