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Mosby

(19,022 posts)
Tue Sep 9, 2025, 01:49 PM Tuesday

'Israel is not committing genocide in Gaza,' UK government concludes

The British Government has determined that Israel is not committing genocide in Gaza, Deputy Prime Minister David Lammy told the chair of the international development committee in a letter on September 1.

This differs significantly from the government's previous position, which was that only courts can decide whether Israel is or is not committing genocide. It also marks the first time the UK government has stated explicitly that Israel's actions in Gaza do not count as genocide.

In the letter to Sarah Champion, Lammy, who was the foreign secretary at the time of writing, acknowledged that the UK government has the duty to prevent genocide under Article I of the Genocide Convention (1948) if it believes there is a serious risk of genocide occurring. This position is in line with the decision of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in the case concerning the Application of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-866809

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no_hypocrisy

(53,011 posts)
1. So, that means that Palestinians are voluntarily starving themselves to death and/or
Tue Sep 9, 2025, 01:52 PM
Tuesday

spontaneously dying.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!

lapucelle

(20,671 posts)
2. Genocide requires the specific intent to destroy an ethnic group as such.
Tue Sep 9, 2025, 02:01 PM
Tuesday

Fully 20% of Israel's population are Palestinian citizens of Israel. A Palestinian citizen of Israel sits on the Supreme Court, and there are Palestinian citizens of Israel in the Knesset.

The idea that Israel is engaged in a genocide is absurd on its face.

Smilo

(1,983 posts)
5. So what do you call what is happening in Gaza?
Tue Sep 9, 2025, 03:18 PM
Tuesday

Ethnic cleansing, extermination, involuntary transfer?

The legal term “genocide” refers to certain acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.

https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/learn-about-genocide-and-other-mass-atrocities/what-is-genocide

Two prominent Israeli rights groups on Monday said their country is committing genocide in Gaza, the first time that local Jewish-led organizations have made such accusations against Israel during nearly 22 months of war.

The claims by B’Tselem and Physicians for Human Rights-Israel add to an explosive debate over whether Israel’s military offensive in Gaza — launched in response to Hamas’ deadly Oct. 7, 2023, attack — amounts to genocide.


https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/two-israeli-rights-groups-say-their-country-is-committing-genocide-in-gaza

lapucelle

(20,671 posts)
6. It's called a war, and it's a war Hamas started.
Tue Sep 9, 2025, 03:43 PM
Tuesday

Any claim to "ethnic cleansing", "extermination", and "involuntary transfer" needs to be supported by evidence of those specific legal charges. Over 20% of Israeli citizens are Palestinian. It patently absurd to claim that a country with over 2,000,000 Palestinian citizens is engaged in "ethnic cleansing" or "extermination" of Palestinians. Frankly, would Israel allow a Palestinian citizen of Israel to sit on the Supreme Court if any of the "genocide", "ethnic cleansing", or "extermination" claims were even vaguely true?

And as for apocryphal "involuntary transfers", when exactly did that happen?

The fact that "prominent groups" are making genocide claims is immaterial, given that genocide is a crime of specific intent and that intent is not present.

There's a reason why both Amnesty International and Ireland want the definition of "genocide" changed and broadened. It's because they know that the war in Gaza is not genocide and that the genocide claims are counterfactual to both the necessary conditions articulated in the language of the statute and long standing legal precedent.









Smilo

(1,983 posts)
10. At the headquarters of the International Committee of the Red Cross in Geneva (ICRC)
Tue Sep 9, 2025, 07:44 PM
Tuesday

.... the words "Even Wars Have Rules" are emblazoned in huge letters on a glass rotunda.

You have to conduct a war according to law, and I'm a firm believer that the only way that you ever create peace is by behaving in just ways, and justice is fundamental to all of this.
British barrister Helena Kennedy KC

lapucelle

(20,671 posts)
11. Thank you for the concession that the war in Gaza is neither "ethnic cleansing", nor "extermination",
Tue Sep 9, 2025, 08:58 PM
Tuesday

nor "involuntary transfer".

And as party to the Geneva Convention with all the duties appurtenant to that role, the UK has determined that it also not "genocide".

Indeed, wars do have rules. Someone should inform Hamas of that fact. Notwithstanding noble platitudes emblazoned on glass rotundas, it has been well documented that Hamas has been "breaking the rules" of war for decades. The people of Gaza are among their victims.

NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence

Hamas’ use of human shields in Gaza

TIME PERIOD: 2008 – 2014
THEMATIC AREA: Lawfare

https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf

Easterncedar

(4,902 posts)
4. The Labour Government is rank as hell
Tue Sep 9, 2025, 03:00 PM
Tuesday

I don’t know who owns Keir Starmer, but the violent and shocking arrests of peace protesters testifies to a lack of decency I would never have expected. Sucking up to our felon just seems weak, and could be called playing politics, but what is going on with all the fricking authoritarianism?

lapucelle

(20,671 posts)
7. They weren't "peace protestors". They were rallying in support of the proscribed terrorist group Palestinian Action.
Tue Sep 9, 2025, 04:10 PM
Tuesday
British police arrest more than 400 at London Palestine Action support rally

More than 400 people were arrested at a London demonstration outside the UK parliament in support of the proscribed Palestine Action group, the Metropolitan police (Met) said late Saturday. The government banned the group under terror laws in July after activists broke into an air base to protest against British policies during the Gaza war.

More than 400 people were arrested in London on Saturday during a tense protest in support of the Palestine Action group, which has been banned under terror laws, police said.

Several hundred people demonstrated in front of the UK parliament, with some holding placards that read: "I oppose genocide. I support Palestine Action."

The capital's Metropolitan Police force (Met) had warned people that it would not hesitate to arrest anyone who explicitly expressed support for the prohibited group.

snip-------------------------------------

Palestine Action was banned under the UK's Terrorism Act of 2000 following acts of vandalism including at a Royal Air Force base, which caused an estimated £7 million ($10 million) in damage.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250907-uk-police-arrest-hundreds-in-latest-palestine-action-demo

lapucelle

(20,671 posts)
8. GOV.UK: Proscribed terrorist groups or organisations
Tue Sep 9, 2025, 04:11 PM
Tuesday
Palestine Action: Proscribed July 2025

Palestine Action is a pro-Palestinian group with the stated aim to support Palestinian sovereignty by using direct criminal action tactics to halt the sale and export of military equipment to Israel. Since its inception in 2020, it has orchestrated a nationwide campaign of property damage, featuring attacks that have resulted in serious damage to property and crossed the threshold from direct criminal action, into terrorism.

The government assesses that Palestine Action commits and participates in acts of terrorism. In several attacks, Palestine Action has committed acts of serious damage to property with the aim of progressing its political cause and influencing the government. These include attacks at Thales in Glasgow in 2022, and in 2024 at Instro Precision in Kent and Elbit Systems UK in Bristol. The seriousness of these attacks includes the extent and nature of damage caused, including to targets affecting UK national security, and the impact on innocent members of the public.

Palestine Action prepares for terrorism. The organisation has provided practical advice to assist its members with conducting attacks that have resulted in serious damage to property at targets across the UK to further its cause. Palestine Action promotes and encourages terrorism. Through its media output, Palestine Action publicises and promotes its attacks involving serious property damage, as well as celebrating the perpetrators.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/proscribed-terror-groups-or-organisations--2/proscribed-terrorist-groups-or-organisations-accessible-version

AloeVera

(3,716 posts)
9. Take a guess who owns Starmer.
Tue Sep 9, 2025, 05:26 PM
Tuesday

The same people who toppled Jeremy Corbyn and others in Labour. With a great big heaping of help from the pro-Israel British media and the elites on the right terrified of a genuine socialist government.

Labour lives in fear of the weaponization of anti-semitism, as most political parties in the West. Hence the inaction and complicity in Palestinians' genocide.

lapucelle

(20,671 posts)
12. Who exactly do you think "owns" Keir Starmer and "toppled" unrepentant anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn?
Tue Sep 9, 2025, 09:14 PM
Tuesday
What does the Labour anti-Semitism report say?

Labour has been plagued with allegations of anti-Semitism since 2016, leading to fractious rows within the party. In May 2019, the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) announced it would be investigating the party over its handling of the claims.

The watchdog said its analysis "points to a culture within the party which, at best, did not do enough to prevent anti-Semitism and, at worst, could be seen to accept it".

The interim chair of the EHRC, Caroline Waters, released a statement alongside the report, saying the investigation had "highlighted multiple areas" where the party's "approach and leadership to tackling anti-Semitism was insufficient". "This is inexcusable," she added, "and appeared to be a result of a lack of willingness to tackle anti-Semitism rather than an inability to do so."

But what about the law? Here, the EHRC found Labour responsible for three breaches of the Equality Act: political interference in anti-Semitism complaints, failure to provide adequate training to those handling anti-Semitism complaints and harassment, including the use of anti-Semitic tropes and suggesting that complaints of anti-Semitism were fake or smears.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-54731222

--------------------------------------------------

Labour suspends Jeremy Corbyn over reaction to anti-Semitism report

Responding to the EHRC's findings, Mr Corbyn said he was "always determined to eliminate all forms of racism".

He claimed his team had "acted to speed up, not hinder the process" and that the scale of anti-Semitism within Labour had been "dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party".

Shortly afterwards Labour general secretary David Evans suspended Mr Corbyn. The party said this was "in light of his comments" and "his failure to retract them subsequently".

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-54730425
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