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TexasTowelie

(122,799 posts)
Sat Sep 6, 2025, 01:12 AM Saturday

Are Russians Exiled Ukrainians? - Econ Lessons



There’s a legend, found in some later Cossack tales, that Muscovites were once exiled Ukrainians — a branch that broke away from Kyiv and turned despotic. It’s an appealing story, but what does science really say? Genetics, archaeology, and political history together give us a clearer picture. My name is Mark, and I have a passion for history because it gives one perspective, and in this case, the relationship between Russians and Ukrainians in terms of origins.

Genetically, Ukrainians are deeply rooted in the steppe cultures that shaped Europe. Ukraine was at the heart of the Yamnaya culture (3300–2600 BCE), often identified as the homeland of the Proto-Indo-European language. From here, herders on wagons and horseback spread across the continent. Later, the Corded Ware culture emerged, fusing steppe ancestry with farming traditions, and it extended into Central and Northern Europe.

Modern Ukrainians retain 45–55% steppe ancestry from the Yamnaya and Corded Ware cultures, with some clusters reaching as high as 60%, and exhibit further clustering closely with Poles, Belarusians, and Lithuanians. Their Y-DNA haplogroups show this continuity:

R1a-Z282 — dominant East Slavic paternal lineage (~50%).

I2a1b — strong in Ukraine, a marker of local Eastern or Central European continuity (~10–20%).

Lower presence of N1c, which is more typical of Uralic and Siberian groups.

On the maternal side, Ukrainians predominantly carry mtDNA haplogroups H, U, J, and T, all of which are characteristically European, with almost no East Asian mtDNA.

Russians, by contrast, are more heterogeneous. Ethnic Russians in the Moscow region share approximately 40–50% steppe ancestry, similar to that of Ukrainians. But Russia as a whole, across its vast territory, averages only 25–30% steppe ancestry. This is because Russia absorbed large Uralic, Turkic, and Siberian populations. Their genetic signatures include:

N1c Y-DNA — a Uralic lineage, up to 20% in Russians, much higher in northern and eastern populations.

East Asian mtDNA haplogroups A, C, D, and Z — rare in Ukrainians, but present in 5–10% of Russians, especially in Siberia.

Autosomal DNA analysis reveals that Russians shifted eastward compared to Ukrainians, reflecting Uralic and Siberian admixture.

So while there is overlap, the genetic distinction is real: Ukrainians are closer to Poles and Balts than to the average Russian across Russia’s vast landmass.

Culturally, the differences run just as deep. The Corded Ware clans, from which much of Ukrainian ancestry derives, lived in decentralized communities. Their burials show individuality, but not rigid hierarchy. These were farmer-warriors with a strong ethos of household autonomy and council decision-making. They pioneered cord-impressed pottery, polished battle axes, wheeled vehicles, and advanced animal husbandry. In short, they lived in a world of distributed power, mobility, and technological innovation.

Muscovy, on the other hand, emerged under Mongol-Tatar domination. Its political traditions became centralized, autocratic, and despotic. Where the Ukrainian Cossack tradition emphasized self-rule, councils, and resistance to domination, Muscovy leaned toward hierarchy and submission to a single ruler. Ukraine looked westward, toward the cooperative traditions of Europe. Muscovy looked eastward, absorbing the despotic norms of the steppe khanates.

So, are Russians “exiled Ukrainians”? The myths claim one thing, but genetics and history reveal another. Ukrainians are not simply rebellious Russians. They are a distinct East Slavic people, carrying some of the strongest direct genetic continuity from the Yamnaya and Corded Ware steppe ancestors, with ideals of freedom and cooperation at their core. Russia, by contrast, became a vast, mixed empire — genetically more Asiatic, politically more despotic.

All people are equal, and children, in my view, are all children of God.. In the context of this question and analysis, in the end, both people are equal in dignity.

However, their paths diverged long ago: Ukrainians, as freedom-loving Europeans, and Muscovy, as something distinct; hence, the two peoples cannot be simplified or categorized as essentially the same or a version of one that has lost its way.

Of course, there is a subtle point to counter the Kremilin propaganda that Ukrainians are just Russians that have gone astray.

This is why I took a deep look at the analysis from an academic standpoint to dispel propaganda and prejudices that might arise from oversimplified views of cultures. All people are special, unique, and equal. Let's make the future of our world better with love and acceptance.
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Are Russians Exiled Ukrainians? - Econ Lessons (Original Post) TexasTowelie Saturday OP
Fascinating. Thank you. niyad Saturday #1
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