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Caribbeans

(1,247 posts)
Sat Aug 16, 2025, 08:37 PM Aug 16

Hydrogen Engine or Hydrogen Fuel Cell? Why Not Both? Volvo Trucks takes us inside its two-pronged development strategy



Hydrogen Engine or Hydrogen Fuel Cell? Why Not Both?

Volvo Trucks takes us inside its two-pronged hydrogen powertrain development strategy.

Volvo | Aug 15, 2025

Hydrogen powertrain development in heavy-duty trucks typically evokes one big question: Why develop both hydrogen fuel cells and hydrogen internal combustion engines? Mehdi Ferhan, senior vice president of powertrain engineering, Volvo Trucks, has the answer.

“There is no silver bullet, one-size-fits-all-solution for the entire world markets,” Ferhan said. “Here we are being very careful to find the right compromise or the right trade-off to offer a correct value proposition for different types of use cases of course at the affordability of the customers.”

...

Why Both Hydrogen Powertrains Matter

When comparing the two technologies, a hydrogen internal combustion engine (ICE) truck operates as a fully mechanical vehicle—similar to a diesel—but runs on hydrogen. A fuel cell electric vehicle (FCEV), by contrast, produces only water vapor at the tailpipe, offers higher efficiency, but comes with a higher system cost.



Then there’s the regulations and political climates that vary across the globe.

“Different regions of the world mean different customer expectations will leave room for different types of technologies,” Ferhan said. “In Europe we have the CO2 new emission standards, which would qualify the hydrogen combustion engine as a real zero emission vehicle, and this leaves of course some room to accelerate this technology to the market in Europe.” ...more
https://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/hydrogen-engine-fuel-cell-volvo/
Volvo: Sustainable Transportation
https://www.volvogroup.com/en/sustainable-transportation/sustainable-solutions/hydrogen-fuel-cells.html

Volvo Trucks – Get to know hydrogen
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multigraincracker

(36,158 posts)
1. Have you every searched "white hydrogen"?
Sat Aug 16, 2025, 09:15 PM
Aug 16

Producing hydrogen is not cost effective, there seems to be unlimited natural hydrogen just under our feet.

NNadir

(36,419 posts)
3. Yeah. This bullshit is also hyped here by the fossil fuel industry, drill baby drill. It's garbage thinking.
Sun Aug 17, 2025, 08:07 AM
Aug 17

NNadir

(36,419 posts)
2. Why not neither? Hydrogen is overwhelmingly made from fossil fuels with exergy destruction of those fuels.
Sun Aug 17, 2025, 08:06 AM
Aug 17

Why on Earth, would anyone advocate for burning more fossil fuels?

Oh I know, for money. No wonder we have all the fossil fuel ads around here trying to rebrand this filth as "green hydrogen."

A Giant Climate Lie: When they're selling hydrogen, what they're really selling is fossil fuels.

Fuel cells rely on fluoropolymers as solid electrolytes, representing one of the most intractable environmental problem on this planet, not that the fossil fuel industry gives a rats ass about the environment. Never have, never will. Fuel cells are even worse than direct combustion of hydrogen, itself an unsupportable, since hydrogen is a dirty fuel.

multigraincracker

(36,158 posts)
4. The beauty of science is that it changes with new information.
Sun Aug 17, 2025, 08:26 AM
Aug 17

First, new information is discovered in one anomaly and then as more are discovered, the theory changes. That is the beauty of science.

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/47025/20231110/world-s-largest-white-hydrogen-deposit-discovered-accident-will-spark.htm

NNadir

(36,419 posts)
7. Really? "White Hydrogen" is going to matter? We'll drill the fuck of the planet and use it all up to be green?
Sun Aug 17, 2025, 08:39 AM
Aug 17

I've been listening to "green hydrogen" bullshit my entire adult life, and I'm an old man.

Right now it is a contributor to extreme global heating, representing between 1% to 3% of the dangerous fossil fuel waste dumped into the planet each year.

I covered this elsewhere many times, for example here, with respect to China:

Subsidizing Grid-Based Electrolytic Hydrogen Will Increase Greenhouse Gas Emissions in Coal Dominated Power Systems Liqun Peng, Yang Guo, Shangwei Liu, Gang He, and Denise L. Mauzerall Environmental Science & Technology 2024 58 (12), 5187-5195

The text is clear enough.

From the introductory text:

... Currently, nearly all hydrogen in China is either produced directly from fossil fuels (55% from coal gasification and 14% from steam methane reforming (SMR)) or as a byproduct of petroleum refining (28%), with only 1% coming from water electrolysis. (2) Producing 1 kg of coal- or SMR-based hydrogen emits roughly 19 and 10 kg of CO2, respectively. (3) In 2020, hydrogen production from fossil fuels in China emitted approximately 322Tg of CO2, equivalent to 25% of total CO2 emissions from industrial processes, a number expected to rise with increasing hydrogen demand. (4) Industrial processes include production of nonmetallic mineral products, chemical, and metal products, as well as production and consumption of halocarbons and sulfur hexafluoride. (4)
.

The bold, italics and underlining is mine.

EST: Chinese Hydrogen Production Is Making Climate Change Worse.

NNadir

(36,419 posts)
6. Yeah. I know. The marketing of hydrogen as "clean energy" has been a disastrously successful scheme.
Sun Aug 17, 2025, 08:35 AM
Aug 17

How people "see things" is often completely disconnected with reality, as the collapse of the planetary atmosphere demonstrates.

multigraincracker

(36,158 posts)
8. Making hydrogen may require it. Finding a natural source may require less stress on the atmosphere.
Sun Aug 17, 2025, 08:43 AM
Aug 17

We will see what happens.
My thought is the only way to save us is to decrease the human population by 2/3. I think the planet can only support 3 billion humans and not 9 billions. I'm open to reducing it to save the planet.

NNadir

(36,419 posts)
9. I'm not sanguine about eliminating 6 billion humans so we can all live in a hydrogen nirvana.
Sun Aug 17, 2025, 08:59 AM
Aug 17

The population of the planet may fall for two reasons, one by catastrophe, which is looking more and more likely, the other by reduced birth rates, which, as the young people we screwed by having stupid fantasies about, among other things, "green hydrogen," are increasingly afraid to have children. Both are operable on a small scale right now.

Whenever I hear about reducing the population as a solution to the ongoing environmental disaster - which may do that, reduce the population, for us, shrugging us off like an overgrowth of bacteria on shit - I kind of wonder why the person suggesting it is unwilling to commit suicide to be "green." It always seems to me that the suggested claim refers to "other people, not me."

There are countries with negative replacement rates, China, Japan and Finland. Without immigration, it would include the United States. It's far too late for that to matter, however, just as it is to drill the fuck out of the planet in a idiotic search for "White Hydrogen." We've been drilling the shit out of the planet for well over a century. If there was a lot of "white hydrogen" there, how come we never saw it?

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