Music Appreciation

highplainsdem

(57,420 posts) Tue Jul 1, 2025, 10:42 AM Jul 1

Rick Beato - So It Begins...Is This A Real Band Or AI? - UPDATE, July 5

Last edited Sat Jul 5, 2025, 04:51 PM - Edit history (2)

See reply 10 for the July 5 update.

Comments on this below the video. Don't look at them if you don't want the answer to Rick's question. Though you can probably guess what it is from the first half of the video title.

I ran across that video last night, too late to want to post about it till this morning, when I discovered there was already a thread about it in the Lounge

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10182193873

which I've posted multiple replies in (a couple about the term "SlopBot" apparently being used to insult people who post to object to AI slop).

But I want to copy my reply 11 there here:

I ran across Rick Beato's video about this last night - I'll post that at the end of this reply - and had

planned to post about "Velvet Sundown" this morning, but logged in to see you already had. Beato is also sure it's AI, btw, and he isn't happy about whoever is behind this AI slop getting paid off the work of other people whose music was stolen to train the AI.

What do you think of this music?

It's homogenized crap. AI slop created only through the theft of all the copyrighted music the AI model used could be trained on.

Does it bother you that it's created through artificial intelligence, or do you enjoy it despite that?

If it DOESN'T bother you that generative AI was trained via the theft of the world's intellectual property, then you're giving a thumbs up to the theft and are trying for an ethics-free and conscience-free discussion of something that exists only because of that theft.

LudwigPastorius (reply 6) isn't the only person who suspects Spotify created this and is doing so to trick customers and fill up playlists with music they own and can use without paying royalties. (Spotify has already been filling up playlists with mediocre music that's apparently work for hire that they had created so they wouldn't have to pay royalties. I posted about Rick Beato's video on that a year or two ago.)

So this is a two-pronged attack on real music by real artists - first by using illegally trained AI, and then by diverting their users' attention to fake music Spotify owns and through that stealing revenue from real artists on Spotify.

If you think that's defensible, I'd like to hear that defense.

EDITING OUT Rick Beato's new video, since it's already in this OP.

Editing to add a short clip from the earlier Rick Beato video I referred to above:

Editing again to link to a DU thread from last December about another way Spotify harms musicians and exploits users not caring enough about who created the music:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219837180

Anyway, I'm more than a bit unhappy that AI music on Spotify, quite likely created by Spotify, has been streamed more than half a million times, suggesting they're promoting it to listeners. Some of whom are also partly to blame if they don't care enough about real music from real artists. Those people aren't really appreciating music. They're listening mindlessly to what corporations and people who don't give a damn about real music feed them.

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Rick Beato - So It Begins...Is This A Real Band Or AI? - UPDATE, July 5 (Original Post) highplainsdem Jul 1 OP

Watched It Just Last Night ProfessorGAC Jul 1 #1

Spotify's own recommendations of that AI music have to be the main reason for all those listeners. highplainsdem Jul 1 #2

Look at this comment I found on YouTube: highplainsdem Jul 1 #3

Seems You Have It Pegged ProfessorGAC Jul 1 #4

IMO what Spotify is doing is fraud. Of course this type of AI, generative AI, is mostly used for fraud of highplainsdem Jul 1 #5

the 20 something music ppl I know still believe they will make it on spotify...but not if spotify has to pay them. that msongs Jul 1 #6

Spotify is definitely hurting artists. highplainsdem Jul 2 #7

I need to link to two other threads I posted today, about what Spotify is doing and the sudden appearance highplainsdem Jul 2 #8

July 3 update - The spokesperson was NOT a spokesperson, and the "band" says they're "not here to dispel mystery" highplainsdem Jul 3 #9

July 5 update - VS's Spotify page now admits the music's AI-generated, supposedly an "artistic provocation" highplainsdem Jul 5 #10

ProfessorGAC

(73,651 posts)

1. Watched It Just Last Night

Reply to highplainsdem (Original post)

Tue Jul 1, 2025, 11:44 AM

Jul 1

First, the song is crap, so the 450k monthly listeners is astounding.
I agree with Rick that there is something off about it.
The guitars sound robotic, the vocals are mushy, and the weird artifacts Rick covers.
It is a bad song, sounds bad but people are still listening to what appears to be a fake band.
Go figure.

highplainsdem

(57,420 posts)

2. Spotify's own recommendations of that AI music have to be the main reason for all those listeners.

Reply to ProfessorGAC (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 1, 2025, 12:29 PM

Jul 1

They're apparently trying to see how much AI slop - which they won't have to pay royalties for - they can get away with.

I'm glad this is getting media attention, and a backlash.

highplainsdem

(57,420 posts)

3. Look at this comment I found on YouTube:

Reply to ProfessorGAC (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 1, 2025, 04:16 PM

Jul 1

Spotify seems to be actively pushing this “band.” I have a playlist called “Vietnam War Music” that I listen to frequently. About two weeks ago, all of these songs by The Velvet Sundown start being played. Like, a lot. Every fifth or sixth song. I’d never heard of them, and it sorta sounded 60s’ish, but something was definitely off. So I googled them and found they’re from, wait for it, 2025. Spotify has them slammed ALL OVER that playlist now (they weren’t as of three weeks ago). Clearly, Spotify is involved.

ProfessorGAC

(73,651 posts)

4. Seems You Have It Pegged

Reply to highplainsdem (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 1, 2025, 05:04 PM

Jul 1

A 2025 band in Vietnam War era library? That's weird.

highplainsdem

(57,420 posts)

5. IMO what Spotify is doing is fraud. Of course this type of AI, generative AI, is mostly used for fraud of

Reply to ProfessorGAC (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 1, 2025, 05:17 PM

Jul 1

all types, from students cheating to criminal deepfakes to people pretending they have skills and knowledge they don't have.

I wonder if a class action lawsuit against Spotify could stop this sort of thing.

They certainly deserve to lose subscribers.

msongs

(71,826 posts)

6. the 20 something music ppl I know still believe they will make it on spotify...but not if spotify has to pay them. that

Reply to highplainsdem (Original post)

Tue Jul 1, 2025, 05:56 PM

Jul 1

is the whole point, fill spotify with nothing but fake music that costs them nothing to promote and real musicians be damned. the jump from auto tune to fake AI is a short one

highplainsdem

(57,420 posts)

7. Spotify is definitely hurting artists.

Reply to msongs (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 2, 2025, 08:25 PM

Jul 2

highplainsdem

(57,420 posts)

8. I need to link to two other threads I posted today, about what Spotify is doing and the sudden appearance

Reply to highplainsdem (Original post)

Wed Jul 2, 2025, 08:53 PM

Jul 2

of a scapegoat/explainer in the form of an anonymous and previously never mentioned "spokesperson for the band."

First, the thread I posted in GD this morning

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220452288

after discovering there were still more than 20 Velvet Sundown tracks on the Vietnam War Music playlist, a very popular playlist. Those tracks were probably at least 10% of the list - none in the first 20 or so tracks, just real classic rock, but then a VS track inserted after every several songs by real artists, all the way down the list. Assuming Spotify had those tracks created for inserting in popular playlists, they saved about 10% of the royalties they would have otherwise paid.

Then this afternoon there was a Rolling Stone article on that anonymous spokesperson for the band suddenly confessing that yes, it was AI music, and a hoax and trolling, but he had no idea how the AI slop got on those playlists.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143489790

I don't for a second believe this was anything but Spotify trying to save face after their fraud was caught and getting a lot of media attention for the fake music being on those playlists.

And as of tonight, the VS tracks are still on the Vietnam War Music list, the first one the 24th on the list, sandwiched between Sweet Home Alabama and Stairway To Heaven.

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/62wW67yRcDrZunRQlgzsqU

Because it's more money for Spotify. And they'll probably keep adding more and more AI slop.

highplainsdem

(57,420 posts)

9. July 3 update - The spokesperson was NOT a spokesperson, and the "band" says they're "not here to dispel mystery"

Reply to highplainsdem (Original post)

Thu Jul 3, 2025, 02:48 PM

Jul 3

From Rolling Stone today:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/ai-band-velvet-sundown-spokesperson-hoax-1235378542/

‘Spokesperson’ for AI ‘Band’ Velvet Sundown Now Says He’s a Hoaxer
The Velvet Sundown's Spotify page also denies "spokesperson" Andrew Frelon's affiliation with the group

By Brian Hiatt
July 3, 2025

The pseudonymous Andrew Frelon, who spoke to Rolling Stone on Wednesday as a spokesperson for the viral AI band The Velvet Sundown, and runs a Twitter account that purports to represent the band, was running an elaborate hoax aimed at the media, he now says in a Medium post. The band’s official Spotify page also posted a notice insisting that Frelon — who “confirmed” that the band created music with the AI tool Suno — is unaffiliated with the band. Velvet Sundown currently have more than 700,000 listeners on Spotify.

A Velvet Sundown X account that’s linked to from the band’s Spotify page messaged Rolling Stone early Thursday morning asking for a correction and reiterating their disavowal of Frelon. “We understand the intrigue our project inspires — and we’re not here to dispel mystery,” the Spotify-linked account Twitter said in a DM early Thursday morning. “But we are here to correct the record….The Velvet Sundown is a multidisciplinary artistic project blending music, analog aesthetics, and speculative storytelling. While we embrace ambiguity as part of our narrative design, we ask that reporting on us be based on verifiable sources — not fabricated accounts or synthetic media.” (The “band” have not yet responded to a request for further comment.)

In his lengthy Medium post, Frelon claims that he took advantage of the Velvet Sundown’s lack of social-media presence and transformed another account he had started in March into what purported to be the band’s “official account.” From there, he claims, he used a long list of “social engineering” tricks, including interactions with the media, to make it appear to be the band’s actual account — with the supposed aim of testing journalists. “Knowing from past projects something about the dynamics of journalistic news coverage,” he writes, “I thought it would be funny to start calling out journalists in a general way about not having reached out to ‘us’ for commentary.” Frelon also told Rolling Stone on Wednesday that he had a strong interest in “art hoaxes.” (The phone number Frelon called from, with a 514 area code, now has a “not in service” message.)

-snip-

Again, Spotify had to be behind the crappy AI music from this nonexistent band getting on those playlists.

highplainsdem

(57,420 posts)

10. July 5 update - VS's Spotify page now admits the music's AI-generated, supposedly an "artistic provocation"

Reply to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sat Jul 5, 2025, 04:50 PM

Jul 5

but actually just a pain in the ass and a waste of time.

Rolling Stone's new article on this AI bore

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/ai-band-the-velvet-sundown-confirm-ai-1235379354/

suggests again that they could've paid to get on playlists, but getting 10% of a very long and popular playlist for their music would likely be so expensive that it still seems most probable that Spotify created this fake band.

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