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BumRushDaShow

(151,641 posts)
Fri May 2, 2025, 05:45 AM 16 hrs ago

Updated Covid vaccines for the fall may be in jeopardy under Kennedy's new rules

Source: NBC News

May 1, 2025, 5:48 PM EDT
.

The anticipated rollout of updated Covid vaccines this fall might be at risk after a change by Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in how vaccines are tested, experts say.

Under the change by Kennedy, according to an HHS spokesperson, all new vaccines will need to go through placebo-controlled clinical trials — where some people get the actual shot and others get something inactive, like a saline shot — to compare the results. Running trials that include a placebo group is already routine for most new vaccines.

The original Covid vaccines, from Pfizer and Moderna, approved in late 2020, went through placebo-controlled trials. But as the virus continued to mutate and the vaccines needed to be updated to match the circulating strain, drugmakers moved to a flu vaccine-like model — using smaller studies to test how well the updated shots triggered an immune response against the variant in question.

Like the annual flu shot, the updated Covid vaccines weren’t treated as entirely new products, since they still used the same formula, with just a tweak to what strain the vaccine would be targeting. The mRNA Covid vaccines were designed so that this change would be particularly easy to make, in the event the shots needed to be quickly updated.

Read more: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/updated-covid-vaccines-fall-may-jeopardy-rfk-jrs-new-rules-rcna204242



What an idiot. As noted, it's generally standard practice for clinical trials to have one group with the actual pharmaceutical and another group receiving the placebo.
22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Updated Covid vaccines for the fall may be in jeopardy under Kennedy's new rules (Original Post) BumRushDaShow 16 hrs ago OP
This is insane. no_hypocrisy 16 hrs ago #1
RFKjr's goal is to kill as many Americans as possible. Irish_Dem 15 hrs ago #3
Yup. OldBaldy1701E 14 hrs ago #6
Is he just insane or is this a vendetta against American Society no_hypocrisy 14 hrs ago #10
Ask the brainworm. LisaL 13 hrs ago #14
Covid vaccines have already been in randomized, double-blind and placebo-controlled studies. Irish_Dem 15 hrs ago #2
The disinformation I'm seeing on DU is mind boggling. yardwork 13 hrs ago #12
I keep posting the truth about Covid medical research design. Irish_Dem 13 hrs ago #15
You have a lot more patience than me. yardwork 12 hrs ago #17
My buttons are getting pushed on some other current issues too. Irish_Dem 9 hrs ago #20
You say it would "unethical" to without a needed medication.... AZ8theist 5 hrs ago #21
RFKjr appears to want to kill as many Americans as he can. Irish_Dem 5 hrs ago #22
This message was self-deleted by its author BadgerKid 15 hrs ago #4
Get out your light stix and horse de-wormers mdbl 15 hrs ago #5
they'll be recommending shots of bleach. nt Javaman 14 hrs ago #7
here comes round two of covid :( nt Javaman 14 hrs ago #8
Won't be long and he'll be out cruising with his buddies truthisfreedom 14 hrs ago #9
As usual, the Trump cult is killing Americans with impunity. NNadir 13 hrs ago #11
And if they apply the same rule to flu vaccines, LisaL 13 hrs ago #13
We will have to see BootinUp 12 hrs ago #16
If only there were some way to opt out of the placebo group mainer 12 hrs ago #18
Bets that the placebo is given to places that voted blue. PurgedVoter 11 hrs ago #19

no_hypocrisy

(51,360 posts)
1. This is insane.
Fri May 2, 2025, 05:48 AM
16 hrs ago

Anybody can get Covid, presumably less likely with a vaccine.

Sam Greenfield just died of pneumonia from Covid yesterday. He was in a rehab center for physical/occupational therapy for many many weeks. Cut off from the "outside". Meaning he caught Covid from the Center, visitors, roommates, therapists, staff, etc.

You just aren't safe anywhere.

Irish_Dem

(69,059 posts)
3. RFKjr's goal is to kill as many Americans as possible.
Fri May 2, 2025, 06:27 AM
15 hrs ago

The GOP wants to cull the heard of the sick, weak, infirm.

no_hypocrisy

(51,360 posts)
10. Is he just insane or is this a vendetta against American Society
Fri May 2, 2025, 07:54 AM
14 hrs ago

for allowing his father to be assassinated?

Irish_Dem

(69,059 posts)
2. Covid vaccines have already been in randomized, double-blind and placebo-controlled studies.
Fri May 2, 2025, 06:26 AM
15 hrs ago

This means that participants are randomly assigned to receive either
the experimental vaccine or a placebo.

A placebo is an inactive injection that mimics the real experience to the patient.

The covid vaccines receive yearly updates to reflect the mutating viruses each year.
These vaccines have already been tested thoroughly as stated above.
But the yearly updates are not placebo studies because it is unethical to withhold
a needed preventive medication. They do undergo randomized and double blind studies.

RFKjr has no idea how research is conducted. Researchers make excellent research protocols
but they must be done ethically.

Irish_Dem

(69,059 posts)
15. I keep posting the truth about Covid medical research design.
Fri May 2, 2025, 08:52 AM
13 hrs ago

Most people do not have PhDs and do not know how research protocols are designed.

yardwork

(66,426 posts)
17. You have a lot more patience than me.
Fri May 2, 2025, 09:48 AM
12 hrs ago

I don't have a PhD either. I have had the privilege of working adjacent to research scientists, so I know a little about how it works.

However, my anger about this goes much deeper - all the way back to being teased in middle school for being a "smart kid."

I look at Trump and his followers and I see the meanest kids from middle school. When I look at pictures of J6 I see a horde of the worst people I've ever known.

And when I read disinformation on DU I see the mealy-mouthed "nice" kids making excuses or getting confused by the bullies. (I note that both Jesus Christ and MLK, Jr. famously spoke out against the mealy mouthed moderates. It must be a human trait to be more enraged by the "nice" people who make excuses for bullies than by the bullies themselves.)

It's definitely my personal issue! I'm guessing that many Americans, feeling the extreme stress of this situation, have regressed a little bit to childhood traumas and poor coping strategies.

Your example is helpful. I'll try to be more patient.

Irish_Dem

(69,059 posts)
20. My buttons are getting pushed on some other current issues too.
Fri May 2, 2025, 12:04 PM
9 hrs ago

The research protocol issue doesn't bother me.
People just don't understand how research is conducted.
I will make an OP about it.

But I have a wild hair up my ass about all the disgusting posts where people are making
excuses for American judges.

Yes the stress of losing our democracy, our way of life, our income, etc is causing
reactivation of old issues and causing new ones.

We will all need to be in therapy before this is over.

AZ8theist

(6,699 posts)
21. You say it would "unethical" to without a needed medication....
Fri May 2, 2025, 04:53 PM
5 hrs ago

....as if "ethics" was a thing this wanna-be dictatorship gave a crap about.....

Irish_Dem

(69,059 posts)
22. RFKjr appears to want to kill as many Americans as he can.
Fri May 2, 2025, 04:59 PM
5 hrs ago

Ethics and the law are not concepts he is concerned about.

Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

truthisfreedom

(23,391 posts)
9. Won't be long and he'll be out cruising with his buddies
Fri May 2, 2025, 07:43 AM
14 hrs ago

And dumping our bodies in Central Park because we’re too rotten to eat.

mainer

(12,326 posts)
18. If only there were some way to opt out of the placebo group
Fri May 2, 2025, 09:51 AM
12 hrs ago

And request to be in the vaccine group.

PurgedVoter

(2,477 posts)
19. Bets that the placebo is given to places that voted blue.
Fri May 2, 2025, 10:56 AM
11 hrs ago

That would help disguise how bad red counties do when a disease is spreading.

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