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BumRushDaShow

(151,660 posts)
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 08:04 PM Tuesday

Supreme Court decides Medicare reimbursement calculation

Source: Roll Call

Posted April 29, 2025 at 11:38am


The Supreme Court sided on Tuesday with the Department of Health and Human Services in a dispute over the rate under Medicare the government pays to hospitals that serve low-income patients. The 7-2 decision rejected an attempt from a group of more than 200 hospitals across 30 states to change the formula the government uses to calculate reimbursement for hospitals that serve a disproportionate share of low-income patients.

The justices decided that the calculation hinges on how many patients received Social Security Supplemental Security Income program benefits in a given month, rather than the larger group that are enrolled in the program generally.

Justice Amy Coney Barrett, writing for the majority of the court, said that the phrase in the law specifying that the formula be based on patients “entitled” to the SSI benefit meant the portion of patients who actually received a check in the month they were hospitalized. “We must respect the formula that Congress prescribed,” Barrett wrote.

The hospital groups had asked the justices to overturn a decision from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit which issued a similar holding restricting the reimbursement calculation to those patients who received the SSI benefit.

Read more: https://rollcall.com/2025/04/29/supreme-court-decides-medicare-reimbursement-calculation/



The M$M completely ignored this story.
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Supreme Court decides Medicare reimbursement calculation (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Tuesday OP
I've seen this story numerous places including all the leading healthcare information sites. Silent Type Tuesday #1
"I've seen this story numerous places including all the leading healthcare information sites." BumRushDaShow Tuesday #2
Doubt any CBS, NBC, etc., viewers really care about a reimbursement formula that has existed for decades. Silent Type Tuesday #3
Given that we're talking about "Medicare" BumRushDaShow Tuesday #4
They upheld Medicare's longstanding rule. That has nothing to do with chopping Medicare Silent Type Tuesday #5
Oh I know this case goes back some BumRushDaShow Wednesday #29
Yeah, most docs are nothing like you describe. elias7 Tuesday #16
Absolutely not true. In 1980s Orthopedists made well over $10,000 for 2 hip replacement. Thst's way over Silent Type Tuesday #19
I work in a healthcare related industry Earl_from_PA Tuesday #6
Thank you for that explanation FemDemERA Tuesday #7
Medicare fraud Earl_from_PA Tuesday #8
It's both. That's coming from the Centers for Medicaid Services. Wiz Imp Tuesday #13
You are correct Earl_from_PA Tuesday #15
Yet, every year more DME companies start up and make good money. While there are codes with poor reimbursement, there Silent Type Tuesday #9
Please provide Earl_from_PA Tuesday #10
Do you make a decent living? If you don't own the DME company, does the owner make a decent living? Silent Type Tuesday #11
So no specific example Earl_from_PA Tuesday #12
Don't have my DME Fee Schedule in front of me. But I've never met anyone in DME who wasn't making a decent amount, Silent Type Tuesday #14
"but tons of providers do well with a substantial Medicare patient base." Earl_from_PA Tuesday #18
I bet you'd go broke in a few months if you cut out Medicare, unless you've already limited it. Silent Type Tuesday #21
Do you work for free? Earl_from_PA Tuesday #23
Work free quite often, but not always. And you don't either, you just want more apparently. Silent Type Tuesday #24
I want Earl_from_PA Tuesday #25
Heard it before. Any Democrat who calls for a big reimbursement increase in this environment should be primaried Silent Type Tuesday #26
The whole point of the OP Earl_from_PA Tuesday #20
So, how much do you think we should increase their reimbursement? And who is going to propose this big increase Silent Type Tuesday #22
No wonder Canada rejected MAGA orangecrush Tuesday #17
re: "patients entitled' to the SSI benefit meant the portion of patients who actually received a check in the month" thesquanderer Wednesday #27
How dare the SC rule in favor of the Biden Admin. The case was filed against HHS/CMS/MEDICARE head Silent Type Wednesday #28
You haven't addressed the questions posed to you in this OP BumRushDaShow Wednesday #30

Silent Type

(9,146 posts)
1. I've seen this story numerous places including all the leading healthcare information sites.
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 08:23 PM
Tuesday

Doctors, hospitals, medical device manufacturers, etc., are never happy with their reimbursement.

Doctors long for the time when they could make close to $1M annually doing a few hip and knee replacements a week, along with all the other tests they can pile on.

BumRushDaShow

(151,660 posts)
2. "I've seen this story numerous places including all the leading healthcare information sites."
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 08:41 PM
Tuesday

Yes - on the health-related sites. But not the ABCs, CBSes, NBCs, CNNs, or MSNBCs, etc.

SCOTUSBlog mentions it since they cover the daily goings-on at the Supreme Court.

Roll Call - which focuses almost exclusively on Congress (and publishes the Congressional Quarterly) had it (which is the OP source).

Silent Type

(9,146 posts)
3. Doubt any CBS, NBC, etc., viewers really care about a reimbursement formula that has existed for decades.
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 08:51 PM
Tuesday

That includes Democratic and GOPer administrations.

BumRushDaShow

(151,660 posts)
4. Given that we're talking about "Medicare"
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 08:58 PM
Tuesday

which may be on the chopping block soon, it SHOULD BE NEWS, considering what has already been happening with it at the moment. For example, the negotiation process for drug prices has already been changed under this new administration and who knows what else might change.

Silent Type

(9,146 posts)
5. They upheld Medicare's longstanding rule. That has nothing to do with chopping Medicare
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 09:12 PM
Tuesday

This is not a trump/musk/Kennedy conspiracy to gut Medicare. Don’t know for sure, but the case probably started back in Biden’s admin.

BumRushDaShow

(151,660 posts)
29. Oh I know this case goes back some
Wed Apr 30, 2025, 03:41 AM
Wednesday

However like a number of cases coming through now that go back to a time during or even before the Biden administration, you are now seeing a reversal of how 45's DOJ is handling them (and that is who represents HHS as I used to work for a HHS agency and we worked with DOJ by providing evidence for any compliance issues that needed legal action including seizures, etc).

It behooves to monitor what happens with the cases that are "in progress" and being decided rather than dismiss it out of hand.

elias7

(4,223 posts)
16. Yeah, most docs are nothing like you describe.
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 10:57 PM
Tuesday

We’re actually human beings who care about treating people. Doctors never made close to 1 million annually doing a few surgeries a week, nor do we try pile on tests that are irrelevant to an evaluation and won’t get reimbursed by private OR public insurance. Not sure where you get your info from, but it’s not from the real world, and I’ve been in the business for 35 years.

Silent Type

(9,146 posts)
19. Absolutely not true. In 1980s Orthopedists made well over $10,000 for 2 hip replacement. Thst's way over
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 11:07 PM
Tuesday

a million bucks in today’s money on something that could be done in a day, more likely two surgical sessions. Nowadays, they’ve invested in surgical centers, scanners, and every other money maker.

I find the whining from providers doing well humorous.

I do admire those docs who cater to Medicaid and uninsured patients. They still make a decent living, but ain’t in it for the money.

Earl_from_PA

(241 posts)
6. I work in a healthcare related industry
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 09:31 PM
Tuesday

Medicare reimbursement woefully lacks real world costs of the provider.

HCPC. That is what the general public has zero knowledge of. Health Care Procedures Coding.

With Medicare, every procedure, treatment, and equipment piece/replacement part has a code assigned. The code associated with any of the aforementioned has a specific reimbursement amount. Period. So if any procedure, treatment, or equipment/replacement part costs the provider more than the code allows reimbursement for, the provider takes the loss. When the primary payer of any provider is Medicare, they operate in the red. And cannot survive.

When a provider has a majority of private insurance providers paying, that provider can stay afloat.

The real issue here is Medicare needs to increase reimbursement by HCPC code, regardless of who the provider is.

As an example, for wheelchair repair (my job), from 1994 to 2017 the HCPC K0019, wheelchair arm pad, meant ALL arm pads. Even it it was a custom molded arm pad designed to keep a quadriplegic's arms in control, and not flopping outside the chair frame. Molded arm pads can cost the provider hundreds of dollars each. From 1994 to 2010 HCPC K0019 reimbursement was $9.50 each.

So in 2008, when my company paid $220 for a molded arm pad, Medicare paid us $9.50.

This is an issue Congress needs to address.

FemDemERA

(501 posts)
7. Thank you for that explanation
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 09:45 PM
Tuesday

Sounds similar to what someone I know who works in medical field told me a few weeks ago.

Earl_from_PA

(241 posts)
8. Medicare fraud
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 10:05 PM
Tuesday

Is not billing for excessive procedures, treatments, equipment and parts, it is billing for such that was not provided. No cost to the provider committing the fraud.

The military might pay $500 for a toilet seat, but that seat was actually bought. Medicare fraud is what was billed but not actually done.

Wiz Imp

(4,855 posts)
13. It's both. That's coming from the Centers for Medicaid Services.
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 10:51 PM
Tuesday
https://www.cms.gov/Outreach-and-Education/Medicare-Learning-Network-MLN/MLNProducts/Downloads/Fraud-Abuse-MLN4649244.pdf

Examples of Medicare fraud include:
● Knowingly billing for services at a level of complexity higher than services actually provided or
documented in the medical records
● Knowingly billing for services not furnished, supplies not provided, or both, including falsifying
records to show delivery of such items
Knowingly ordering medically unnecessary items or services for patients
● Paying for referrals of Federal health care program beneficiaries
● Billing Medicare for appointments patients fail to keep

Earl_from_PA

(241 posts)
15. You are correct
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 10:55 PM
Tuesday

But from my corner of healthcare, I repair existing equipment, it really doesn't exist. But I am sure it happens in other corners...

Silent Type

(9,146 posts)
9. Yet, every year more DME companies start up and make good money. While there are codes with poor reimbursement, there
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 10:10 PM
Tuesday

are other codes that pay very well, sometimes considerably more than one can buy it on Amazon.

Earl_from_PA

(241 posts)
10. Please provide
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 10:39 PM
Tuesday

An example of such a lucrative code.

I got into this business in 1998. And in more than a quarter century, I've yet to see a profit on any government payer invoice. Medicare. Medical (Medicaid) Tricare (the military version of government insurance), there are those who turn a profit through fraud, billing for products and services not actually provided. I am interested in this/these HCPC codes that pay "very well". If Amazon charges more, for self diagnosed equipment, I really want to know about it.

Silent Type

(9,146 posts)
11. Do you make a decent living? If you don't own the DME company, does the owner make a decent living?
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 10:43 PM
Tuesday

DME does well, and Medicare often pays better than private insurers.

Earl_from_PA

(241 posts)
12. So no specific example
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 10:47 PM
Tuesday

Of these 'phantom' lucrative codes.

Do you work in healthcare, in any capacity? What intricate knowledge do you possess about medical billing? Or of medical reimbursement?

Silent Type

(9,146 posts)
14. Don't have my DME Fee Schedule in front of me. But I've never met anyone in DME who wasn't making a decent amount,
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 10:54 PM
Tuesday

though not excessive by any means. Appreciate your critical work.

Most DME Suppliers, doctors, hospitals, etc., who complain they are losing money from Medicare are exaggerating at best. They might not be making what they want, but that’s different. Medicaid is not much more than contributing to overhead, but tons of providers do well with a substantial Medicare patient base.

Earl_from_PA

(241 posts)
18. "but tons of providers do well with a substantial Medicare patient base."
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 11:03 PM
Tuesday

As one who actually works in the industry, I can tell you that statement is incorrect. HCPC reimbursement is substantially less than costs. We are bound to accept those patients to keep our license. Regardless of financial loss. It is private, not public, payers who keep the lights on.

Silent Type

(9,146 posts)
21. I bet you'd go broke in a few months if you cut out Medicare, unless you've already limited it.
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 11:15 PM
Tuesday

In any event, I appreciate the services you provide to patients.

I just don’t think most healthcare providers are doing as bad as they claim when trying to get their reimbursement increased. There are doctors and other professionals who work in clinics for uninsured, poor, etc., who are excepted.

Earl_from_PA

(241 posts)
23. Do you work for free?
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 11:25 PM
Tuesday

Because I don't.
When you operate at a loss, you go out of business. Period .
I have made a career of doing only what is necessary to keep my clients moving. But I am aware that to keep the business moving we need to make a profit. To be eligible for mobility equipment, the Medicare standard is: 1 medically necessary, and 2 the least expensive option.
I have consistently adhered to both criteria.
And I can assure you, there is zero profit there
If it were not for private insurance payers, my company would not exist.

Silent Type

(9,146 posts)
24. Work free quite often, but not always. And you don't either, you just want more apparently.
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 11:30 PM
Tuesday

I assume you are a small DME company or similar. “Need profit to keep company moving” doesn’t mean a lot when owners are doing well. I suspect your company makes a decent profit, that is taken out with salary. Lower the salary, profit o keep moving increases.

Cracks me up when some doctor making $500k, whines about not making enough to hire a medical assistant at a decent wage (when that assistant helps them see 5 more patients a day or an extra $1000 a day on average). I know you are not an MD, but their whining always cracked me up.

My real point is that we are trying to keep Medicare from getting gutted. Maybe Democrats proposing big increases in reimbursement is not a good idea right now.

Not that I expect most providers to stop whining. I’ve heard it for 50 years, even when Medicare/Medicaid essentially paid what providers billed. Interestingly, those provider bills increased substantially almost every month once they realized that.

Earl_from_PA

(241 posts)
25. I want
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 11:49 PM
Tuesday

Fair compensation for my endeavors. And I want the same for my employers. What I don't want is the government telling me I have to provide goods and services at a financial loss

Charity has its place. But when it threatens my daily life, and my future life, I draw a line. Fairness is absent with Medicare. It's taxpayer's money. So they have a tight grip. What they fail to recognize, is that those that are the providers, are the taxpayers.

I would much rather pay for healthcare, than munitions to foreign allies.

Silent Type

(9,146 posts)
26. Heard it before. Any Democrat who calls for a big reimbursement increase in this environment should be primaried
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 11:56 PM
Tuesday

in my opinion.

Preserving the program, increasing covered people, maybe Medicare-for-All is more important than helping providers doing well, do even better. Sorry.

Earl_from_PA

(241 posts)
20. The whole point of the OP
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 11:10 PM
Tuesday

Is that some providers may end up insolvent due the Medicare reimbursement rules. And I agree. Wholeheartedly. Because I see it everyday.

Again, for clarity, Congress needs to address this.

Silent Type

(9,146 posts)
22. So, how much do you think we should increase their reimbursement? And who is going to propose this big increase
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 11:24 PM
Tuesday

when Medicare is teetering on the chopping block?

Where do you see it. I’ve worked with just about every healthcare provider for over 50 years.

Except for pediatricians and doctors/providers who devote their practice to Medicaid and uninsured, the only ones I’ve met who were really hurting were the ones who were charged with Medicare fraud for taking advantage of the system, screwed over their spouses, got license sanctioned, had significant health/disability issues, molested a patient, and similar.

orangecrush

(24,405 posts)
17. No wonder Canada rejected MAGA
Tue Apr 29, 2025, 11:01 PM
Tuesday

No one in their right mind wants our fucked up "healthcare" system.

thesquanderer

(12,584 posts)
27. re: "patients entitled' to the SSI benefit meant the portion of patients who actually received a check in the month"
Wed Apr 30, 2025, 12:42 AM
Wednesday
Receiving the check is not the same as being entitled to it. Weird logic there. Barrett seems to not understand what the word "entitled" means.

I am old enough to be entitled to SSI. I have chosen not to take it yet... but I am still entitled to it, and can take it if I want it.

Silent Type

(9,146 posts)
28. How dare the SC rule in favor of the Biden Admin. The case was filed against HHS/CMS/MEDICARE head
Wed Apr 30, 2025, 12:54 AM
Wednesday

under Biden. Do I need the sarcasm thingy?

Have we lost our minds?

BumRushDaShow

(151,660 posts)
30. You haven't addressed the questions posed to you in this OP
Wed Apr 30, 2025, 03:55 AM
Wednesday

nor realized that there was an administration change. Point being that one needs to monitor what is going on with Medicare in general for the future and that includes any suits related to it.

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