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Stargleamer

(2,706 posts)
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 05:15 PM Feb 1

Alex Pretti's murderers are identified as Jesus Ochoa and Raymundo Gutierrez

BREAKING: The two federal immigration agents who fired on Minneapolis protester Alex Pretti are identified in government records as Border Patrol agent Jesus Ochoa and Customs and Border Protection officer Raymundo Gutierrez.

ProPublica (@propublica.org) 2026-02-01T21:10:18.072Z
89 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Alex Pretti's murderers are identified as Jesus Ochoa and Raymundo Gutierrez (Original Post) Stargleamer Feb 1 OP
Hope they die in state prison malaise Feb 1 #1
state prison ? dweller Feb 1 #28
State charges, not federal. Swede Feb 1 #73
Finally. May there be justice for Pretti. ...n/t CaliforniaPeggy Feb 1 #2
plus 1 BlueWaveNeverEnd Feb 1 #24
May they reap what they have sowed a thousandfold. fierywoman Feb 1 #3
What? I was expecting their names to be Lon Butcher and Earl Dingess. Duncan Grant Feb 1 #4
I was thinking the same thing. PittBlue Feb 1 #5
I saw a screenshot of the one guy's eyes... Ritabert Feb 1 #12
It is profitable. Marcuse Feb 1 #42
I guess DEI doesn't apply to Ice vapor2 Feb 1 #59
Latino? Aviation Pro Feb 1 #6
Sounds like it from the surnames for starters. Also the recent one, DUI "covered in vomit" - so UTUSN Feb 1 #16
White supremacy is a little more complicated than that WhiskeyGrinder Feb 1 #20
The proud boys guy was cuban, they don't think they're latin. dem4decades Feb 1 #76
The right wing will be less likely to defend them JI7 Feb 1 #7
I wonder what their immigration status is. This whole thing is so stupid and people are getting killed. Srkdqltr Feb 1 #8
You do realize there are Latinos in this country iemanja Feb 1 #45
Yes i am aware they were here first, particularly in the south and west. There was always people here before. Srkdqltr Feb 1 #49
Then why would you make that comment about immigration status? iemanja Feb 1 #56
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 1 #77
Illegal aliens can't join the military. It requires an SSN surfered Feb 1 #79
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 1 #81
This surfered Feb 1 #82
Thank you. It is stupid for any of us to equate names with character. erronis Feb 1 #53
Don't agree with the poor write trash talk iemanja Feb 1 #57
Agree. I got carried away by trying to find an anti analogy. erronis Feb 1 #61
All good. iemanja Feb 1 #65
True susanr516 Feb 1 #63
Sounds serious Torchlight Feb 2 #88
Oinc oinc, putas. LudwigPastorius Feb 1 #9
Fucking Murdering Shit for brains Cha Feb 1 #10
The irony Jilly_in_VA Feb 1 #11
I suspect they headed down I-35 and are somewhere in Texas Ritabert Feb 1 #13
They should be in custody MustLoveBeagles Feb 1 #15
"The DEI hires made a bad decision" dalton99a Feb 1 #14
Twenty years of experience between them. Training isn't the issue. Abolish it all. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 1 #17
20 years a experience where? On the southern border? GusBob Feb 1 #71
20 years of fulfilling the mission of CBP. This is what it looks like, no matter where they serve. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 1 #72
The problem with poorly trained or well trained Nazis isn't the level of training--it's that they are Nazis. tblue37 Feb 1 #80
Have they been charged with anything yet? Has Jonathan Ross? n/t flvegan Feb 1 #18
Nope. dalton99a Feb 1 #19
no and they won't be charged with anything as lnog as Bondi heads the DOJ Takket Feb 1 #21
After seeing their names I think there is a chance they could be charged JI7 Feb 1 #23
I have to on the side that says BULLSHIT. I'm betting there are MORE shooters than this. ALSO bluestarone Feb 1 #22
I can tell by the one shooter's eyes if they publish a picture without the balaclava Ritabert Feb 1 #31
Well, let us know what you think if you see it. bluestarone Feb 1 #34
Somebody posted the other guy's picture today... Ritabert Feb 2 #86
TY for that. I'm not sure who fingered these two, BUT bluestarone Feb 2 #87
The one guy's ex-wife said he was a gun nut and had 25 guns. Ritabert Feb 2 #89
Maybe ICE is hiring goons from the Mexican druggers. I mean really, leftyladyfrommo Feb 1 #25
And you conclude that because they are Hispanic iemanja Feb 1 #52
This right here........ Takket Feb 1 #26
Consider the level of cognitive dissonance needed.... Ritabert Feb 1 #27
Preserving and enforcing white supremacy LuvLoogie Feb 1 #78
True. Ritabert Feb 2 #85
Quislings? johnp3907 Feb 1 #29
They just don't contemplate that they could be picked up too Ritabert Feb 1 #30
Probably former military, poverty draft. CBP hired in 2014 and 2018? haele Feb 1 #37
That's not what the link stated MichMan Feb 1 #44
My fault for not reading the article. haele Feb 1 #64
Statement from ex-wife, Angelica Ochoa: (from the ProPublica article) IcyPeas Feb 1 #32
EX-wife. n/t Ms. Toad Feb 1 #41
Correct... fixed. IcyPeas Feb 1 #54
"identified in government records"? surrealAmerican Feb 1 #33
So Stephen MIller, whose immigrant grandparents fled pogroms against Jews in Russia, Scrivener7 Feb 1 #35
Self hate Cirsium Feb 1 #38
I just finished watching the documentary on HBO "Let us Prey." It goes some way to explaining that horror. Scrivener7 Feb 1 #39
Identification with the Aggressor Cirsium Feb 1 #46
That's a powerful excerpt and can easily be used by "state" forces to subjugate. 1984. 2026. erronis Feb 1 #66
Look around. The lesson is, B.See Feb 1 #40
Stephen Miller isn't doing this to gain acceptance. Scrivener7 Feb 1 #55
I'm not so much concerned B.See Feb 1 #58
Of course Cirsium Feb 1 #36
SAY THEIR NAMES..... Escape Feb 1 #43
The least safest place for them will be in prison JoseBalow Feb 1 #62
Okey Dokey Escape Feb 1 #67
I'll wait for the result of Minnesota's investigation, thanks struggle4progress Feb 1 #47
As sinkingfeeling mentioned on another thread, I wonder if this is for real paleotn Feb 1 #48
CBP Killing Fields Of Southern Border 2na fisherman Feb 1 #50
They aren't used to "social justice, hipster, progressive urban" protesters. LeftInTX Feb 1 #74
Indict, prosecute, convict and imprison these murderers Mysterian Feb 1 #51
With those names, shouldn't Trump be jumping to conclusions that this can be blamed on DEI? Norrrm Feb 1 #60
If so, perhaps it's to help them blend in. usonian Feb 1 #68
Holy Batshit! Give Peace A Chance Feb 1 #69
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 1 #83
That's what Trump thinks surfered Feb 1 #84
Kapos! mucifer Feb 1 #70
White American thugs don't have a corner on being killers and torturers. Ping Tung Feb 1 #75

dweller

(28,308 posts)
28. state prison ?
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 06:41 PM
Feb 1

I suspect they’ll be deported to CECOT , citizen or no …

😐



✌🏻

Duncan Grant

(8,917 posts)
4. What? I was expecting their names to be Lon Butcher and Earl Dingess.
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 05:23 PM
Feb 1

Holy shite, how do these guys sleep at night?

Ritabert

(2,364 posts)
12. I saw a screenshot of the one guy's eyes...
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 05:47 PM
Feb 1

...and even with a balaclava on you could see the dark skin under the eyes typical of Hispanics or Indians.

Aviation Pro

(15,525 posts)
6. Latino?
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 05:30 PM
Feb 1

They will be thrown under the bus, then the prison then the dumpster fire by President Miller et al before the end of the week.

Sucks to be them.

UTUSN

(77,636 posts)
16. Sounds like it from the surnames for starters. Also the recent one, DUI "covered in vomit" - so
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 06:05 PM
Feb 1

as others have said, the White Nationalists won't take a hit - next better thing than deportation and killing others is taking the heat off themselves and (in their mind) proving their core point (racism).

*********QUOTE********

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/31/cbp-border-agent-charged-drunk-driving

CBP employee in Minnesota charged after reportedly being found ‘covered in vomit’ in car
Alfredo Mancillas was reportedly slumped in vehicle and ‘covered in vomit’ when state troopers found him in St Paul


********UNQUOTE*****




Srkdqltr

(9,702 posts)
8. I wonder what their immigration status is. This whole thing is so stupid and people are getting killed.
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 05:33 PM
Feb 1

iemanja

(57,746 posts)
45. You do realize there are Latinos in this country
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:25 PM
Feb 1

Whose families were here centuries before Anglo-Americans? That’s what happens when a country steals half its territory from Spain and Mexico. Assuming someone has any particular immigration status because they have a Hispanic name is exactly what ICE does.

Srkdqltr

(9,702 posts)
49. Yes i am aware they were here first, particularly in the south and west. There was always people here before.
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:41 PM
Feb 1

And Latino Spanish people are European, white.

iemanja

(57,746 posts)
56. Then why would you make that comment about immigration status?
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:48 PM
Feb 1

What makes you think it’s any different when directed toward Border Agents?

Response to iemanja (Reply #56)

Response to surfered (Reply #79)

erronis

(23,710 posts)
53. Thank you. It is stupid for any of us to equate names with character.
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:47 PM
Feb 1

Last edited Sun Feb 1, 2026, 08:18 PM - Edit history (1)

How many had names switched by immigration to something looking more "English"?

How many are descendants of families that have intertwined with other cultures for centuries?

And it is an insult to anyone with an "ethnic" name that has served this country in many ways.
(Edited to remove an unnecessary defamatory statement.)

iemanja

(57,746 posts)
57. Don't agree with the poor write trash talk
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:55 PM
Feb 1

Last edited Mon Feb 2, 2026, 01:03 AM - Edit history (1)

but I rec’d your post for the rest.

BTW, those “poor white trash” are my ancestors on my father’s side. The one who first came over was an indentured servant. Servants, like the enslaved, were not trash because of their legal status, anymore than the working poor today are trash.

susanr516

(1,512 posts)
63. True
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 08:18 PM
Feb 1

I live in south Texas, which was part of Mexico until the Mexican American war. An old saying here is, "A Gringo is anyone born north of the Nueces River." Another says, "We didn't cross the border. The border crossed us."

Jilly_in_VA

(14,332 posts)
11. The irony
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 05:37 PM
Feb 1

For someone named JESUS to be a murderer. I hope his mother is proud.

And BTW, where are these guys? I bet they are not hiding out in Mar-a-Lardo like Jonathan Ross. Hand 'em over, CBP. NOW!

GusBob

(8,238 posts)
71. 20 years a experience where? On the southern border?
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 08:49 PM
Feb 1

Do you that maybe that’s where they learned the trade ?

The Devils highway is a bad place to get trained

WhiskeyGrinder

(26,889 posts)
72. 20 years of fulfilling the mission of CBP. This is what it looks like, no matter where they serve.
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 09:15 PM
Feb 1

tblue37

(68,420 posts)
80. The problem with poorly trained or well trained Nazis isn't the level of training--it's that they are Nazis.
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 10:30 PM
Feb 1

Takket

(23,688 posts)
21. no and they won't be charged with anything as lnog as Bondi heads the DOJ
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 06:20 PM
Feb 1

only question is if the next AG will indict or will drumpf pardon them

bluestarone

(22,071 posts)
22. I have to on the side that says BULLSHIT. I'm betting there are MORE shooters than this. ALSO
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 06:21 PM
Feb 1

I trust none of this for now. They just throw 2 names out there? It would not surprise me in the least that the REAL killers are still working there. It's just to fast to trust these FUCKERS.

Ritabert

(2,364 posts)
31. I can tell by the one shooter's eyes if they publish a picture without the balaclava
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 06:46 PM
Feb 1

Very distinctive.

bluestarone

(22,071 posts)
34. Well, let us know what you think if you see it.
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 06:49 PM
Feb 1

I just cannot believe them, because they lie lie lie.

Ritabert

(2,364 posts)
86. Somebody posted the other guy's picture today...
Mon Feb 2, 2026, 12:30 PM
Feb 2

...and that wasn't the one I saw. His name was Jesus, go figure.

bluestarone

(22,071 posts)
87. TY for that. I'm not sure who fingered these two, BUT
Mon Feb 2, 2026, 12:33 PM
Feb 2

If it came from ICE boss's i will never believe it. I fear the true killers will not be found.

leftyladyfrommo

(19,982 posts)
25. Maybe ICE is hiring goons from the Mexican druggers. I mean really,
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 06:28 PM
Feb 1

What kind of person can execute someone and then just walk away like it was no big
deal. Those guys are really bad dudes that are coming in for the high salaries.

iemanja

(57,746 posts)
52. And you conclude that because they are Hispanic
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:46 PM
Feb 1

Ignoring the fact that families in the border region were here centuries before Anglo-Americans. It’s not the agents who are exposed.

Takket

(23,688 posts)
26. This right here........
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 06:30 PM
Feb 1

This article is a very good example of why "more training" and "more vetting" isn't the answer. Jesus Ochoa and Raymundo Gutierrez joined Border Patrol in 2018 and 2014 respectively. These aren't new agents. www.propublica.org/article/alex...

hannah gais (@hannahgais.bsky.social) 2026-02-01T22:02:07.150Z


it ain't the lack of training (though that is a problem as well). These organizations are rotten to the core and no one in them is employable.

Ritabert

(2,364 posts)
27. Consider the level of cognitive dissonance needed....
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 06:32 PM
Feb 1

....for a person with brown skin to be hunting people with brown skin. If they're in civvies going to the store they could be nabbed themselves.

LuvLoogie

(8,795 posts)
78. Preserving and enforcing white supremacy
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 10:12 PM
Feb 1

does not require white skin. Having white skin will not protect you from the enforcement of white supremacy.

That said, Spanish surnames are European surnames. There are white Hispanics with little to no indigenous DNA. And there is plenty of right-wing, toxic masculinity to go around.

haele

(15,359 posts)
37. Probably former military, poverty draft. CBP hired in 2014 and 2018?
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:01 PM
Feb 1

Jobs for combat only vets, especially if they only did 3 and out, or 4 and out, who basically just graduated HS and had minimal skills other than being bi-lingual are the type DHS was hiring for ICE and CBP Enforcement.
Same attitude with local sheriff's departments all over the SW.
They didn't need people with smarts or integrity, they just needed people who could look tough, speak Spanish, and follow orders.

And the Hispanic guys end up trained to view immigrants the same as the White Nationalist bubbas - the current asylum seekers and border crossers are criminal invaders doing it the wrong way.
Not like hard working Mama and Papa, Abuelita and Abuelo, or the Tios and Tias did back before the last major mass Amnesty programs during the Reagan and Bush 41 era...because, of course after Gingrich and Faux News started popularizing the GOP agenda, any Democrats proposing mass Amnesty means they're going to let cartel and gang members in.

MichMan

(17,092 posts)
44. That's not what the link stated
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:20 PM
Feb 1

"Jobs for combat only vets, especially if they only did 3 and out, or 4 and out, who basically just graduated HS and had minimal skills other than being bi-lingual are the type DHS was hiring for ICE and CBP Enforcement."

Ochoa, who goes by Jesse, graduated from the University of Texas-Pan American with a degree in criminal justice, according to his ex-wife, Angelica Ochoa. A longtime resident of the Rio Grande Valley, Ochoa had for years dreamed of working for the Border Patrol and finally landed a job there, she said. By the time the couple split in 2021, he had become a gun enthusiast with about 25 rifles, pistols and shotguns, Angelica Ochoa said.

haele

(15,359 posts)
64. My fault for not reading the article.
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 08:19 PM
Feb 1

But my comments do still stand for a lot of BCP over the years in this border town. It's the excuse many have used to others in their communities.

IcyPeas

(25,397 posts)
32. Statement from ex-wife, Angelica Ochoa: (from the ProPublica article)
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 06:48 PM
Feb 1

Last edited Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:48 PM - Edit history (1)

Ochoa, who goes by Jesse, graduated from the University of Texas-Pan American with a degree in criminal justice, according to his ex-wife, Angelica Ochoa. A longtime resident of the Rio Grande Valley, Ochoa had for years dreamed of working for the Border Patrol and finally landed a job there, she said. By the time the couple split in 2021, he had become a gun enthusiast with about 25 rifles, pistols and shotguns, Angelica Ochoa said.

surrealAmerican

(11,858 posts)
33. "identified in government records"?
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 06:49 PM
Feb 1

How sure are we that these records are accurate?
It could be those were just agents they wanted to get rid of.

Scrivener7

(59,381 posts)
35. So Stephen MIller, whose immigrant grandparents fled pogroms against Jews in Russia,
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 06:49 PM
Feb 1

is the Nazi leader of a rogue militia that includes Latino men who are killing protestors standing up for Latino immigrants.

I know this has something to teach us, but I can't for the life of me figure out what it is.

Cirsium

(3,893 posts)
38. Self hate
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:03 PM
Feb 1

Very disturbing.

I watched a video yesterday of white MAGA "trad wife" women saying that the greatest threat the country faces comes from "liberal white women."

Scrivener7

(59,381 posts)
39. I just finished watching the documentary on HBO "Let us Prey." It goes some way to explaining that horror.
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:06 PM
Feb 1

At least the women in the most conservative circles.

Cirsium

(3,893 posts)
46. Identification with the Aggressor
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:30 PM
Feb 1

A common use of this term refers to the ways in which, often unconsciously, people might “identify” with their aggressors through mimicry. For example, a child victim of verbal abuse who becomes verbally abusive toward others might be imitating the behaviors he was subjected to, as an attempt to experience a sense of safety (other defense mechanisms, such as displacement, might also be at play). Identification with the aggressor is, in this way, understood as a form of imitation of behaviors or ways of being.

Ferenczi understood identification with the aggressor differently. He observed that many victims of childhood sexual abuse experienced helplessness and anxiety in the relationship with their abusers, to the point of “[subordinating] themselves like automata to the will of the aggressor, to divine each one of his desires and to gratify these; completely oblivious to themselves they identify themselves with the aggressor” (Ferenczi, 1949). As psychoanalyst Jay Frankel (2002) puts it, “we stop being ourselves and transform ourselves into someone else’s image of us.” To be safe from abuse, the child needs to learn what is expected of them and become who the adult needs them to be, by “identifying” with the adult’s needs, expectations, demands, and desires.

This is not a conscious process, a decision, or a choice the child makes. The process of identification is unconscious and automatic, getting reinforced with each interaction, particularly when no other adult is available to witness, protect, or help us make sense of the experience, or when the abuse is denied, minimized, or invalidated. The child will develop an acute sensibility to other people’s moods, anticipate other’s demands and expectations, and accommodate their own self to what they consciously or unconsciously perceive that the aggressor requires from them.

"Identifying" with the adults around us is not necessarily a bad thing and, in fact, can be very important in the development of our personality and sense of self. However, psychoanalyst and trauma expert Elizabeth Howell (2014) notes that Ferenczi does not talk about healthy identification that supports the child’s developing identity. Instead, traumatic identification with the aggressor is a response to events that cannot be assimilated into narrative memory but, instead, remain unlinked and dissociated.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/relationships-healing-relationships/202401/identification-with-the-aggressor-and-complex

erronis

(23,710 posts)
66. That's a powerful excerpt and can easily be used by "state" forces to subjugate. 1984. 2026.
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 08:35 PM
Feb 1

B.See

(8,353 posts)
40. Look around. The lesson is,
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:08 PM
Feb 1

there will ALWAYS be those from every minority who'll seek to gain acceptance, protection, even profit, from embracing or endorsing an ideology of racism and hate. That kind of s--- is as old as the slave trade.

Cirsium

(3,893 posts)
36. Of course
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:00 PM
Feb 1

Again and again when a LEO is identified and brought to justice it is so rarely Anglo men even though the majority of the perpetrators are Anglo men. No, it will be women, or Latinos, or African Americans.

Escape

(451 posts)
43. SAY THEIR NAMES.....
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:19 PM
Feb 1

over and over and over and over again. Until they are no longer safe ANYWHERE outside a federal prison!

paleotn

(22,146 posts)
48. As sinkingfeeling mentioned on another thread, I wonder if this is for real
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:32 PM
Feb 1

Or is this a DHS leak meant to cover for the actual murderers. Granted, there's more than enough fascism in the Latino community, but this just seems a little too convenient for me.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143609580#post8

I'll hold judgement until more is known. When the true murderers are doxed, go to work on them.

2na fisherman

(313 posts)
50. CBP Killing Fields Of Southern Border
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:44 PM
Feb 1

How may Spanish-speaking rogue CBP agents are accustomed to committing crimes against Latinos along the Mexican border? They often patrol in small groups in uninhabited areas. And they probably operate under minimal supervision, especially at night. So some may feel they can get away with drug crimes, sex crimes and even murder under color of law. Banditos with badges. Some have already been busted for things like this. ICE and CBP must be completely overhauled and all rogue agents must be screened out ASAP. And there must be constant oversight of such agencies to prevent the recruitment and fostering of a work culture which supports goon squads rather than peace officers.

LeftInTX

(34,203 posts)
74. They aren't used to "social justice, hipster, progressive urban" protesters.
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 09:52 PM
Feb 1

Their idea of a protest is a truck caravan.
And yes, minimal supervision. Since they target immigrants who are more than likely here illegally, and are often trafficking something or other, no one seems to give a fuck if one of them dies.

Mysterian

(6,415 posts)
51. Indict, prosecute, convict and imprison these murderers
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 07:45 PM
Feb 1

when the rule of law is re-established in the USA.

Norrrm

(4,897 posts)
60. With those names, shouldn't Trump be jumping to conclusions that this can be blamed on DEI?
Sun Feb 1, 2026, 08:08 PM
Feb 1
??? Definitely!
??? Not a bit!

Response to Give Peace A Chance (Reply #69)

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