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BH liberal

(61 posts)
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 11:06 AM Saturday

One of the main reasons why the National Guard...

should not be used in our cities.

I helped train the Kansas National Guard as an active duty artillery officer during the months leading up to my own orders to Vietnam. Elements of the Kansas Guard's 69th Brigade were deployed to Vietnam in 1968. My job as a Second Lieutenant fresh out of artillery school was to ready artillery battery personnel for close support of infantry units. What I quickly found out is that those guard enlisted men and officers were mostly too incompetent to successfully carry out their upcoming missions. And compounding this problem was a prevailing attitude that overseas deployment was "not what we signed up for". Too many had expected that their National Guard enlistment would shield them from seeing duty in combat zones.

The first battery that I took out for trials on the Fort Carson, Colorado firing range failed miserably. That would set the tone for what was to come in the following weeks. The unit leaders were given maps of the location to set up their guns and the coordinates of their assigned targets. The objective was for the battery personnel to correctly lay in the guns and put fire on those targets, mainly old tanks and other equipment placed out on the range. Our job as safety officers and supervisors was to check their work as they set up and prepared to fire. We were not to interfere if mistakes were made, unless those mistakes would endanger lives and property on the base.

To make a long story short, the battery set up 180 degrees out...in other words, they were preparing to fire in the opposite direction from their designated targets. We halted them as they prepared to fire, since their guns were aimed back at the base instead of down range. Naturally, their officers were embarrassed to no end. What's more, the fears of many of the Guard members that their meager training back in Kansas had not been adequate for what was to be expected of them in Vietnam. And we as trainers had too little time to work with them before they were to be deployed.

Later Army Reserve experience in training other states' Guard units during two summers after my own discharge from active duty confirmed the problems Guard members faced. These issues were systemic. Their training was inadequate. Fast forward to present day and our National Guard units are being pressed into service for other jobs for which they are not adequately trained...as law enforcement in this case. They are being misused...criminally...by the Trump Administration.

20 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
One of the main reasons why the National Guard... (Original Post) BH liberal Saturday OP
K&R Hugin Saturday #1
Thanks... BH liberal Saturday #2
My brother was in the NYNG for 14yrs Historic NY Saturday #3
I took basic training at Fort Lewis, WA... BH liberal Saturday #6
Jebus. Irish_Dem Saturday #4
Yes... BH liberal Saturday #7
Reminds me of what I learned reading Autumn of the Black Snake. cab67 Saturday #5
Thanks for your book recommendo... BH liberal Saturday #9
Interesting Sequoia Saturday #18
ONLY ONE REASON to deploy the Guards here. To help people and save lives. usonian Saturday #8
Well said! BH liberal Saturday #10
The Coast Guard has deployed overseas to Bahrain. Shipwack Saturday #19
That's why they are now being paired with DC Police for protection. SunSeeker Saturday #11
So true! BH liberal Saturday #13
Deployed NEEDLESSLY. BurnDoubt Saturday #12
It's clear... BH liberal Saturday #14
Enlightening KT2000 Saturday #15
You're welcome. As experiences go, BH liberal Saturday #17
I appreciated your writing KT2000 Saturday #20
KNR. niyad Saturday #16

Hugin

(37,215 posts)
1. K&R
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 11:32 AM
Saturday

That stands for Kick (back up to the top of the forum) and Recommend (usually reserved for posts of interest and importance for other DU readers)

Nice job, newbie!

BH liberal

(61 posts)
2. Thanks...
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 11:55 AM
Saturday

Glad I stumbled upon this forum after wandering through cyberspace following the demise of the Major League Baseball fan forums. There were many active political discussions poorly monitored there that often got out of hand. Likely a key factor in the MLB decision to discontinue them.

Historic NY

(39,509 posts)
3. My brother was in the NYNG for 14yrs
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 12:03 PM
Saturday

he took army basis and advanced artillery at Fort Sill. He said it was like going to summer camp on their yearly training. Mostly it was a bunch of old guys hanging other drinking enough near beer to get a buzz. Putting people w/o any LE training or handgun training on the street was stupid. Its Trump fault sending people out to play cops and robbers.

BH liberal

(61 posts)
6. I took basic training at Fort Lewis, WA...
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 12:17 PM
Saturday

before heading to Fort Sill. Spent the summer of '68 in Colorado Springs/Fort Carson. There were so many officers there awaiting the inevitable orders to SE Asia. Felt sorry for the National Guard troops. Heard later that they were basically used as replacements and fill-ins for different divisions in Vietnam and that many did not fare well.

BH liberal

(61 posts)
7. Yes...
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 12:20 PM
Saturday

to be sure. Will the Trumpkins ever be held accountable for this and all their other illegal decisions?

cab67

(3,552 posts)
5. Reminds me of what I learned reading Autumn of the Black Snake.
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 12:13 PM
Saturday

The book covers the history of the Northwest Indian War ("Little Turtle's War " ) of the 1790's.

The framers of the constitution didn't want a large standing army. They feared a despotic leader could use such an army for their own purposes. (Smart fellows, these framers.) That was the main reason the second amendment was put there - the idea was that common people, especially those on the frontier who might encounter Indigenous Americans or British units unhappy with their presence, would form a local militia with their own arms and serve the purpose of a regular army.

They wouldn't have artillery - the regular army would provide that - but the small arms used by the average citizen were basically the same as what a trained soldier would have. Maybe they had more rifled muskets, but these were far slower to load at the time, so they didn't necessarily give a rifleman an advantage.

This proved disastrous in practice. We didn't have an enormous standing army until after the Second World War, but the standing army was expanded in the years after this war.

It's an excellent book.

BH liberal

(61 posts)
9. Thanks for your book recommendo...
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 12:28 PM
Saturday

and the apt points about the founders' rationale for the Second Amendment. The NRA and the gun nuts always "forget" to mention the practical reasons for wanting to utilize the people's privately-owned weapons and the fact that the Congress quickly followed the adoption of the amendment with the Militia Acts, which were passed in the next sessions to provide the "well regulated" militias as the less expensive and less dangerous options to a standing army.

Sequoia

(12,708 posts)
18. Interesting
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 02:06 PM
Saturday

Thanks for the heads up. Our library has a copy which I'll be glad to read.

usonian

(22,814 posts)
8. ONLY ONE REASON to deploy the Guards here. To help people and save lives.
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 12:22 PM
Saturday




Not as mafia enforcers.

Overseas missions? That's above my pay grade. I defer to the vet posting the OP.

Coastie here.

BH liberal

(61 posts)
10. Well said!
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 12:32 PM
Saturday

The National Guard units deployed to our cities are being ill-used and illegally abused.

Shipwack

(2,943 posts)
19. The Coast Guard has deployed overseas to Bahrain.
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 02:37 PM
Saturday

There were a few ships attached to the Fifth Fleet to help with anti-piracy and anti smuggling operations.

I worked with the admiral in charge of them a bit. A good man who was always wrestling with the problem of too many missions, not enough ships.

SunSeeker

(57,358 posts)
11. That's why they are now being paired with DC Police for protection.
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 01:04 PM
Saturday

Because these National Guard troops can't protect themselves, so they need to be protected by trained cops. Which of course takes DC Police away from their crime fighting duties.

BH liberal

(61 posts)
13. So true!
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 01:19 PM
Saturday

All are being put in harm's way as the populace objects, sometimes violently, to the illegal and ill-advised deployments.

BurnDoubt

(1,306 posts)
12. Deployed NEEDLESSLY.
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 01:18 PM
Saturday

This…
From people who couldn’t breathe because they were so busy hollering about “Federal Over-reach” over Covid-19 masking, even though it was clearly a Nationsl Security situation.
Kraznov’s Fever Dreams have led us so far down the strafey hole we may NEVER get out.
Ignorance and Perfidy are for Jerking Off, NOT Government Policy.
It’s Wrong In Every Way!

BH liberal

(61 posts)
14. It's clear...
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 01:32 PM
Saturday

that this country is now at a tipping point. We are on the verge of veering off into full-blown theocracy, plutocracy, autocracy and oligarchy. That way lies anarchy!

KT2000

(21,864 posts)
15. Enlightening
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 01:36 PM
Saturday

Love personal stories like this that related actual experiences and not the PR we usually hear. Thank you

BH liberal

(61 posts)
17. You're welcome. As experiences go,
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 01:51 PM
Saturday

my stint in the military and in Vietnam taught me more about how governments function and malfunction than anything else. I did not want to participate in a war that I felt our politicians started for the wrong reasons, and some of the corruption I saw I have kept to myself all these years for fear of retribution. Ironically, after all the time and money the army spent on my artillery training, when I got to Vietnam my unit's personnel officer noticed I had a degree in English and had taken classes in journalism. They made me a G-2 (division level) intelligence officer. Reams of sensitive communications and agent reports crossed my desk, some of which were quite shocking.

KT2000

(21,864 posts)
20. I appreciated your writing
Sat Nov 29, 2025, 08:02 PM
Saturday

and guessed you studied English.
There is a short video where a journalist asked a soldier in Viet Nam what he would tell people 50 years from then. He said "Don't send your sons to wars started by politicians."
I hope Venezuela is not the next venture for those only after the money (oil) using our sons and daughters for the wealthy.

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