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bigtree

(93,279 posts)
Tue Nov 25, 2025, 02:45 PM Nov 25

Whose actions actually "interfere with the loyalty, morale, or good order and discipline of the armed forces"

Sen. Mark Kelly and others reminding U.S. troops of their legal and constitutional obligation to follow the law, and their right to refuse illegal orders? (“Our laws are clear,” Kelly had stated in a social media video. “You can refuse illegal orders.”)

Or, Trump and Hegseth berating and degrading our military forces, as they bully and humiliate decorated generals and officers out of the service with misogynistic, masochistic garbage rhetoric which even the old guard had already rejected as counterproductive to a military for Americans which functions on projecting American values which is inherent in the diversity of the people who serve.

The Pentagon says it is reviewing whether Senator Mark Kelly, an Arizona Democrat and retired Navy captain, may have violated military law after he appeared in a video with several other lawmakers urging U.S. service members to reject unlawful orders.

"The Department of War has received serious allegations of misconduct against Captain Mark Kelly, USN (Ret.)," the Department of Defense, which has rebranded as the Department of War, said on X. "In accordance with the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 10 U.S.C. § 688, and other applicable regulations, a thorough review of these allegations has been initiated to determine further actions, which may include recall to active duty for court-martial proceedings or administrative measures."

The Defense Department said “military retirees remain subject to the UCMJ for applicable offenses, and federal laws such as 18 U.S.C. § 2387 prohibit actions intended to interfere with the loyalty, morale, or good order and discipline of the armed forces.”

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5620399-pentagon-investigates-mark-kelly/


Those two privileged assholes never measured up to the standards they spat out schoolyard insults at generals they summoned together a short while ago, from all over the country; many battle-seasoned and decorated, to berate and demean them as 'fat" and part of a 'broken culture," telling them to just suck up the humiliation of being talked down to by a convicted criminal and a teevee primadonna or just resign.

___"Foolish and reckless political leaders set the wrong compass heading and we lost our way. We became the 'Woke Department,'" Hegseth said as he kicked off the event. "But not anymore."

Addressing an auditorium full of top brass who flew in from around the world, Hegseth defended his firings of flag officers, including the top U.S. general, who is Black, and the Navy's top admiral, who is a woman. He said the officers he relieved were part of a broken culture.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-preside-over-unusual-military-gathering-virginia-2025-09-30/


In bashing the 'culture' of the U.S. military, they aren't only auguring to replace it with their own petty version of a high-school clique, they are literally positioning our own military forces against the very Americans they're denouncing as out of step with their denigrating view of the people of this country.

Hegseth's privileged frat-boy declaration to officials at the Pentagon that, ""diversity is our strength" is the "single dumbest phrase in military history," was swiftly followed by his commander-in-chief's assault on black-run cities and communities under the same pretext of their inferiority and rejection of their rights and humanity; threatening them with the very same forces they intend to operate like a white-boys club and wield against the residents; not providing protection for the people, but for the ICE fascists like the federal government used to back up the KKK in their terrorizing of black communities in nation's past.

___“This is Liberation Day in D.C. and we’re going to take our capitol back,” Trump declared, echoing World War II-era language associated with emancipation of Italy from facism and the German Nazi occupation.

“We don’t yet know the full impact this decision will have on D.C. and the Black and minority communities Trump has suggested he may target next,” said the Congressional Black Caucus in a statement posted on X, “we do know this: militarized over-policing will inevitably lead to increased fear and mistrust among communities that have too often been treated as occupied populations, rather than as citizens who deserve to be served and protected.”

“He has never thought well of Black elected leaders, and he’s been explicit about that,” said Maya Wiley, the president and CEO of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights. She added that she views Trump’s actions as a tactic to undermine liberal dissent.

“It’s also clear from his previous statements that he has always searched for excuses to assert might over places he does not have political support and that will not just do his bidding,” she added. “Washington, D.C., has been one of those cities.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/08/12/black-cities-mayors-trump-dc-takeover-00505773


Trump isn't projecting our troops against foreign enemies, so much as he's arraying them against Americans to intimidate us to his authoritarian will. It's his own office which is responsible for the deployment of National Guard troops to D.C. which was just ruled illegal four days ago by a federal judge.

In his own statement following the ruling, D.C. Attorney General Brian Schwalb (who sued the federal government over the Guard deployment, arguing it exceeded the president's legal authority) said:

___"Normalizing the use of military troops for domestic law enforcement sets a dangerous precedent, where the President can disregard states' independence and deploy troops wherever and whenever he wants – with no check on his military power. This unprecedented federal overreach is not normal, or legal. It is long past time to let the National Guard go home – to their everyday lives, their regular jobs, their families, and their children."

Mr. Trump first ordered National Guard forces to D.C. in August, part of a broader crackdown on crime using a combination of Guard troops, federal law enforcement agents and local D.C. police who were briefly taken over by the federal government.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/judge-rules-trump-national-guard-dc-deployment-illegal/


We're supposed to believe that sitting national legislators reminding our troops of their right and responsibility to follow the law is damaging to "the loyalty, morale, or good order and discipline of the armed forces," at the same time the WH and the Pentagon is exploiting our nation's defenders to intimidate and force Americans to bend to their political will and autocratic edicts.

They're basically intent on tearing down the diverse foundations of our military that were built up over generations understandings of rights and responsibilities previously ignored or neglected; all to advantage a centralization of America that seeks to exclude and alienate millions who don't share or give fealty to this mostly white male administration's privileged attributes.

But, oh yeah, Mark Kelly's medals were supposedly out of order and in line for some sort of discipline from a frat boy playing warrior and his criminal commander, neither one of them fit to shine his shoes, much less measure up to the standards they're setting for the rest of the country who they despise.

___“The Supreme Court accepted broad interpretations of both the Espionage Act and the Sedition Act, and in a series of cases upheld convictions as consistent with the First Amendment,” says Geoffrey Stone, a professor at the University of Chicago Law School and author of Perilous Times: Free Speech in Wartime.

The Sedition Act, however, didn’t last nearly as long. Congress repealed the law in 1920 along with a host of wartime restrictions, and most prisoners convicted under the Sedition Act, including Debs, were released.

“Today, it’s unequivocal,” says Stone. “You cannot punish someone for speech that may cause others to engage in unlawful conduct unless you can show at the very least that it created a clear and present danger of grave harm, and the Supreme Court has not upheld a single conviction under that standard in 50 years.”

The Espionage Act never fully went away. A portion of it survives in the federal criminal code as “seditious conspiracy,” defined as two or more people conspiring to “overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force” the U.S. government, to illegally seize property or prevent the execution of any law.

https://www.history.com/articles/sedition-espionage-acts-woodrow-wilson-wwi


Trump insisting Kelly and others be charged with sedition for reminding troops to follow the laws that the President and his Pentagon are conspiring to break is the ultimate in projection and hypocrisy. So much so, that it spills over into an intentional defense by Trump of his clear and open intention to continue to break the law and order his generals and troops to follow suit.

It reads and sounds like nothing more than a criminal president insisting he has the right to do whatever he wants with our military troops, and threatening those responsible for checking and accounting for his conduct of his CiC duties away from his repeated illegal attempts to deploy them against us all.

And let's not forget, this president has already repeatedly ordered his military to summarily execute an unknown number of unknown people in boats in the international waters without any authorization other than his own assumed authority to interdict illegal drugs.

We're past the stage of just assuming our troops know the law and their responsibility to uphold it in the face of illegal orders.

...besides:

Chris Murphy @ChrisMurphyCT
He literally tweeted this out.

“SHOULD ORDERS AND THE LAW EVER CONFLICT, OUR OFFICERS MUST OBEY THE LAW.”

This plaque is displayed at West Point. It’s the law. Not sedition.



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Whose actions actually "interfere with the loyalty, morale, or good order and discipline of the armed forces" (Original Post) bigtree Nov 25 OP
with this president bigtree Nov 25 #1
Trump, Inc doesn't want good soldiers. They want obedient cannon-fodder willing to kill on command. Ping Tung Nov 25 #2

bigtree

(93,279 posts)
1. with this president
Tue Nov 25, 2025, 07:23 PM
Nov 25
Senator Mark Kelly @SenMarkKelly 32m
With this president, it’s clear this isn’t about the law. It’s about headlines and intimidation. I’m not going to let that happen.



Ping Tung

(4,088 posts)
2. Trump, Inc doesn't want good soldiers. They want obedient cannon-fodder willing to kill on command.
Tue Nov 25, 2025, 07:40 PM
Nov 25
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.

Albert Einstein
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