Obviously I've seen this claim tons of times, but Pakman taking it up for discussion?

Wow

Because they are not the secret ballots that can be easily changed. If the mail in ballots are changed, you can call voters to see true voter intent. 2020 was won with mail in ballots. 2024 was stolen with changed secret ballots.

(1) the ballot is returned in a double envelope. The outer envelope allows for verification of voter ID. Once the outer envelope is separated from the inner envelope, it cannot be connected back to the person who cast the ballot.

(2) even if it was somehow possible to connect ballot to voter, asking a voter post-election who they voted for is subject to outcome bias (i.e. people like to be perceived as voting for the winner - so they are less likely to disclose their actual vote.

He has bullied and cheated every day.
Why would any day be different?
The bullying and cheating goes on... and on... and on...........

ALL the swing states voted for pres putz?

Won all (or many) of these states with just enough of a margin to barely avoid a recount. What are the odds?

…and the margin was more than three times the threshold for a taxpayer funded recount.

Should know by now not to believe everything I read…🙄

... and I truly wonder if we could ever trust an election again in this country.

In order to save our Democracy we need to figure out how to promote and protect free and fair and elections.

I think the Dem leadership is not helping the situation by holding onto the message: "we are not election deniers". There is a difference between making false accusations and pursuing true irregularities.

I believe the consultant class and strategists may have dissuaded leadership and/or Harris from requesting paper ballot hand recounts.

We (meaning) everyone including Dem leadership) need to keep our eyes and voices on the topic.

Not enough Dems juxtapose the saving of Democracy and the need to for free and fair elections. Chris Murphy regularly gives voice to these concerns. (However, I have never heard him question the 2024 results.)

It made no sense until the results came out to where Trump won Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin.

I'm not buying it. Results change from election to election and an unusual result is not evidence of fraud. He says some precincts with higher turnout went more for Trump but that's probably because Trump voters turned out at a higher rate.

It would be almost impossible to fix an election. He has no explanation for how it could have been done.

I really dislike the hoaxes because I take pride in the fact that my side doesn't have many conspiracy theories while the other side has them all the time. The next time we complain about the right wing making false claims of vote fraud I don't want to see them saying "your guys do it too."

you could get by on watching half a video. I've spent hours and hours reading about this, interpreting graphs, checking sources. You have to dedicate a whole lot more time than this to understand the situation.

But I figure by the first half he would have shared his evidence if he had any. Nevertheless, I'll watch the rest.

It was a waste of time. Did you notice how often he uses words like "could" "if" "seems" etc? He says it every time. He says if someone could have stuff ballot boxes or switched votes but has no explanation how and offers nothing at all that is evidence that someone did. He talks about what happened at Volkswagen but when voting machines are programmed there are lots of people watching. He talks about someone hacking a central tabulator but here in PA, which is one of the two states he cites, newspapers publish precinct by precinct results and people who were there watch. If votes were switched at a central location there would be plenty who would spot it. The fact that results were similar all over is strong evidence that there was no fraud, as it would have had to have been done in NUMEROUS places. He says some counties in PA got 92% turnout. I'd like to know which ones.

Since you've spent all this time I'd love to see any real evidence you have. There is none here.

for putting in the time, but you were correct in your first sentence. It IS a waste of time. It also preys upon peoples' desperate hopes, and I find that unforgivable.

The clues aren't simple. Hope for a whistle-blower.

...are never able to actually back up what they claim.

to load votes in favour of their candidate, and then when it gets to some level, they throw away the rest of the votes, and this can be easily done via software.

...election workers of both parties down to the precinct level would have to be complicit.

Do you really believe that Democratic election workers are going to help Republicans win by loading votes like that?

The central tabulators aren't in the precincts.

…the tabulators are in the precincts, and I’m guessing it’s that way in lots of places. The only tabulators outside of the precincts in Virginia are the ones that count the mail-in and drop off ballots, and the same security processes are followed for those, and attested to by elections officers of both parties. Partisan election observers from both parties are also present at the central offices and most precincts.

…for nearly 40 years, yes, I understand that.

The point I was addressing was about the ability to pre-load votes onto tabulators, and that can’t happen unless elections officers and observers of both parties at the precinct level are complicit.

Each machine has a user level

A programming level

And a master level

Are you saying you think every election clerk across the country gets master level access? Cause that’s not true

…that it appears that you have no idea the way cross-checks of tabulator numbers, number of ballots used, and number of voters occur all day long at the precinct level, or how they are reconciled after the polls close. If you did, you would see why it’s impossible to pre-load votes onto tabulators.

…. firmware patches put on them that allowed him or his people to look @ and or manipulate
the data and Peter Thiel was running a clean up program that hid the evidence of foul play.

...the highest usage of central tabulators is in individual counties are used to count mail-in or drop-off ballots. In-person ballots are tabulated at the individual precinct.

So is it your contention that all of the precinct tabulators were programmed to shift votes from Harris to Trump?

the tabulators and operating systems but were activated by an external signals to the firmware
patches that Eaton installed after they had bought Tripp Lite. @ least that is my best guess.

…including at precinct level? Because I’m not aware of of any tabulators that are internet connected to where they could receive any kind of signals. I know for certain they aren’t in Virginia.

…manipulation of that data that was in the tabulators or the operating systems and the way it was
structured it left no terrestrial fingerprints. From Musk’s low earth orbit satellites (Star link) to cell
phones (which) and then to the tabulators. Musk is already on record as saying that he had an app
that let him see the vote 4 hours early.

https://thiswillhold.substack.com/p/she-won-they-didnt-just-change-the

See if this makes sense to you?


It sure looks like the architecture was in place to allow that to happen.
Btw three things that makes the election not pass my smell test is that every glitch, crazy
stat, and what have you helped the republicans and has so for years, and 70% + of Americans
supported a woman’s right to choose about her body and health care but that vote disappeared
in the November 24 elections even though post the overturning of Roe v Wade every election
showed strong support for women’s rights but somehow that vote disappeared, and just Trump’s
actions during the campaign showed to me at least he knew “the fix was in.”

2000 and 2004. Do you remember how far off the exit polls were, especially in 2004? The exits were so far off that they started "correcting" the exits to more match the official vote counts. I remember research posted here on DU showing that some voting machine results matched the exits, while ES&S machines were responsible for the lack of precision.

As already mentioned, there are Democrats at the polling place and they’d have to in on the fix.

I also have significant knowledge about voting machines both within and across brands.

The machines are locked away and there are tests.

Was it done is the first question. The statistician’s job is to examine the numbers, the probability of it being rigged. He’s got some evidence. Right now he’s saying the anomalies he has found show in some cases the degree of anomaly could have had an effect on the election. He’s being conservative in his pronouncements.

we are going to find out they've been stealing elections for quite some time.

they have either cheated or were the legacy of prior cheating.

The architecture for the cheating was in put into place. End of story.
Trump knew the fix was in and you could tell that by his actions and speech.

https://thiswillhold.substack.com/p/she-won-they-didnt-just-change-the

Plus according to Greg Palast another 4 million were removed by Republicans called
True the Vote and another 2 million were removed via the USPS and signatures not matching.

And then there's the stealing like Nixon pulled by negotiating world events that could affect the election.

boring you. So sorry. Not.

flat earthers, etc.

Democrats and the Democratic Party embrace reality.

never changes.

please. Can't you be a little more original?

Also, your response means nothing because of the semantic ambiguity of "reality."

There's no evidence. Split ticket voting isn't evidence.

"reality" is problematic. I explained why in another post. Please, bring yourself down to earth. Your comments mean nothing.

What really gets old is rampant corruption in the US.

There's nothing to what they are trying to sell. We regularly get the same headline from whatever YouTube channel they are on. It's a lot of we think this is unusual, starting with split ticket ballots and differences between mail in and on election day voting patterns that we know are things that happen.

Explain that pattern.

But sure even though you didn't ask the conspiracy theorists to explain why they discard the obvious. Some people will have been unhappy with President Biden whether due to the economy, or covid restrictions, or immigration, or crime, or they were upset by his age, or Gaza, etc. Or Harris being perceived as too invested in trans rights. And then there's misogyny/racism.

But then that same person looks at say the governor's race in North Carolina and the major party candidates are a self proclaimed black nazi and the governor. Hardly unimaginable that people couldn't get onboard with the guy who called himself a nazi. And before you say Trump is a nazi, he didn't use the word, and people are really good at compartmentalizing.

Now it's your turn. Explain that the election very much matched pre election polls, how democratic officials all over the country were either complict or too stupid to see anything wrong, and why the Harris campaign hasn't said anything.

Why do we keep winning special elections? Why did they not rig a 60 Republican Senate so they could pass whatever? Why did we win so many down ballot races in 2024? Did the criminal masterminds not think of fixing those elections too?

a) It's risky to KEEP doing it, or do it TOO obviously.
b) the prize was Trump & GOP majorities in both Houses, and they got that. I think they also basically flipped every Senate seat that was legitimately considered "up for grabs".

To be clear I'm not asserting it WAS stolen, I'm only answering your questions as if it WERE the case. Which I doubt, but I'm open to the idea, esp. if the theory plausibly involves only a handful of actors.

Elections are run locally, not nationally.

The main assertion is that the tabulation machines in the vast majority of the US are only built by 2 manufacturers

They’re in there, the election was conceded and certified.

For the millionth time, these people are fucking fascists!! They aren’t going to leave, ever. We have to force them out physically. Unless and until the entire working class or at least the majority, including the dipshits who voted for these assholes, decides that enough is enough and shuts down the country, we’re stuck with them.

Say they did cheat and it can be proven. Who is going to do anything about it? Certainly not Congress which is run by fascists. Certainly not the courts, which are run by fascists. The media is run by……you guessed it..fascists and they’ll lie and distort the facts to prevent the necessary uprising as they’ve been doing for years.

What are we going to do? Theyre already doing test runs, getting people used to the idea of a police state, getting people used to the idea of their fellow citizens being dragged from their homes. We’re there. It’s happened.

What are we going to do? Fight or submit?

So, am I interpreting this correctly: is the guest saying was that wherever the turnout % was high, that above a certain threshold, all votes began to be calculated as "Trump votes", and that was the means by which it was stolen? Almost all the votes were tabulated on machines from two companies, and may both have had corrupted tabulator code, basically? This seems like it would relatively easy to check by looking at the timestamps of when votes were counted, and what they showed. The turnout % could not be known positively in advance, so the machines would have to be acting this way 'on the fly' when the threshold was actually hit by actual vote counts. So you'd see that like, after 9:21 pm, the vote % for Trump suddenly diverged in a statistically improbable way.

Or am I missing something?

That are randomly checked during units. Yes, the ballots are run through tabulators, but any corruption of the code would be revealed when results are compared to the ballots during the audits.

It is estimated 98% of the votes cast in 2024 were on paper ballots.


https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/some-good-news-donald-trump-we-already-use-paper-ballots

because I don't think it is.

I'm just trying to understand what it entails. Then I was proposing means by which, if my understanding was correct, that its viability could be further tested.

And yes, the method you stated is another means by which it could be tested. However that one is SO obvious that if, in fact, this point: &quot vote switching) would be revealed when results are compared to the ballots during the audit" was indeed something that was happening automatically, I really can't believe the guest is presenting his "argument" with a straight face.

Ergo, it makes me wonder if my interpretation of his "argument" is erroneous?

But that’s very close, after a certain point (looking at their graphs) 📈 and graphs 📉, or repub votes dramatically increase and democratic votes decrease

It happens often enough it should be a huge red flag 🚩

Here is the thing, all we need to do is hand count the votes in public openly and transparently and then we would know, assuming the chain of custody hasn’t been compromised

The rest would go over the heads of 99.9% of jurors.

But the samples for risk limiting are randomly selected and are of sufficient size to ensure the results are accurate. There is a lot of science behind this type of audit, which is why its use is spreading.

Counting all paper ballots by hand only works in very small jurisdictions- elsewhere it’s very slow and unreliable.

The hand counting would be precinct by precinct, my precinct has between 800-1200 voters turn out so handcounting the top two federal races could be done in a few hours by some honor roll 4th graders

Because ballots have so many questions, candidates and stuff the scanner could count it all and just hand count the top two federal races (assuming those numbers matched)

That doesn’t think that complete hand counts are a waste of time. Risk limiting audits allow for sufficient hand counts to confirm posted outcomes. Throw in all the other types of audits and security procedures and wide spread national fraud becomes next to impossible. Our system of elections is so decentralized, and has so many people involved, that only by magical handwashing all the problems away can such a scheme be pulled off.

We don’t have to trust paid officials to “post outcomes “

Hand counted paper ballots counted openly and transparently in full public view are the only way for the average citizen to oversee their own elections, anything else is Stalin’s preference


After all it doesn’t matter who votes, only who counts the vote

The whole point of our system is precisely that no-one trusts anyone. That’s why every step is observed by trained volunteers who actually understand what is going on in front of them. And what does “in full public view” even mean? How can anyone watching from home even understand what is going on, let alone catch fraud? Its a meaningless term with regards to elections with huge numbers of ballots.

I was actually referring to citizens watching other citizens counting ballots but in this day and age it would be fairly easy to put up cameras that could show the ballots and the counting and be live streamed

And that is it causes far more problems than it solves. It involves lots of people, which means you are just introducing more opportunities for error. Remember the Cyber Ninja “audit” in Arizona? They attempted a complete hand counts- it took weeks and they couldn’t get the numbers to reconcile because there were too many errors.

Anyway, this horse is dead so time to move on.

I do remember when Georgia was hand counted and thousands of unreported ballots were found… it didn’t change the outcome, thank goodness but the original published numbers were not correct

background makes it look authentic. Calling my congressman now ....

Here is a link to Election Truth Alliance: https://electiontruthalliance.org/.

I am a retired computer programmer and I understand statistic well-enough to know that there is a strong possibility that the votes in the swing states were compromised. Not via the voting machines, but by the tabulation machines. Please watch the video.

When they hand counted samples of paper ballots and compared them to the published results?

Doubting malaise since November 2024

smoking gun. Even if there was, this analysis doesn't address the real problem -- over 70 million people were brainwashed enough to vote for Trump and others. Until we can address that, bringing up issues of possible election interference, fraud, etc. is like trying to rearrange the chairs on the Titanic.

Once the ballot is scanned, there’s no way to match it to a voter

By law they can only be counted by machine

So I don’t see how anyone would know which of the ballots made by voters who were later disqualified to toss.

Numbers are being reported as n/n, no id, no vote when the guy has his letter from the election board that his two forms of id have been received and accepted

If happens like a couple 100,000 times in one day in two different counties, it doesn’t appear to effect the count but they are saying if it’s flipped this huge number incorrectly for no apparent reason then it could of flipped votes

….. might have been picked out prior to the election for special consideration. It would have been
tricky to do because if somebody had been dropped from the voter rolls then that should have been
shown up in the voter lists @ the precinct.

The counting machine can’t tell which voter submitted which ballot

At the end of the day, the tally of total ballots entered into the machine must equal the number of people who showed up and who voted along with the number of mail in ballots

That is a good question.

millions of people (even if they are the minority) willing to vote and support the utter destruction of the rule of law, democracy, life support systems and the environment, we have a problem much deeper than voter suppression, election fraud and interference. Those election issues are a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

Election interference, voter suppression, the electoral college, multi billion dollar disinformation
right wing campaigns, gerrymandering, billionaires, and Christo Facsism has allowed for the rise
in right wing dumb asses getting more power than they should. That being said I think > 30% of
Americans are racist, sexist, and anti intellectual and that keeps the republicans in the game.

I wish you well.

Looking at the numbers for years and years, 30% have ALWAYS been ASSHOLE Americans!! That's a fact!

…. goal of keeping Americans stupid. Plus generational idiocy hurts our nation too.

Telling Dr's how to Dr. Teachers, how to teach, Pastors how to pray, (i don't anymore) Supreme court judges, how to judge. On and ON, and ON.

For those of you calling it a made up conspiracy theory there is substantial proof that at the very least should be studied to prevent possible future questions.

A group of statisticians working for "Election Truth Alliance" has studied the 2020 and 2024 elections and have provided compelling evidence of statistical analysis of anomalies that occurred during the 2024 election. Using many graphs they are able to show very easily the astronomical anomalies that occurred of which the odds of happening number in the billions. I was able to see a 2 part, 3-hour presentation on Christopher Titus's podcast on YouTube.

To collect all of the data has taken time which would answer the question, "why wasn't this evidence provided before the Felon stepped foot in the People's Whitehouse".
The other obvious question would be, "what can be done now?" Probably not a damn thing. But, if the election was stolen, maybe we can learn how to prevent it in the future and we can still punish the perpetrators in the next Administration, without Garland there to slow the process.

Unlike previous election deniers, we are not storming D.C., we are not taking up arms and we are not making the accusations based on a losing politician's word. Rationally, we understand there's probably nothing that can be done about it. So no, it's not just like Republican's reaction.

That’s the fix

And not through the use of statistics, and that is the latter is easily manipulated to create the desired outcome.

https://hallrender.com/2017/02/02/statistical-evidence-and-the-false-claims-act/

Do I suspect there was cheating? Yes.
I would gladly listen to statisticians provide and substantiate both arguments because there are enough rational reasons to do so. To say no with certainty would be a mistake IMHO.

That’s the easy part. It all falls apart when you try to concoct a scheme involving thousands of precincts and people that manages to bypass multiple layers of security and post election audits. That’s when magical handwaving comes into play.

The attack of the election system only needed to be concentrated in 8 swing states not the whole nation and the anamolies were not just the votes but also events surrounding voting day. Their are comparisons of mail in voting vs live voting, etc., etc.

I don't need to convince anybody, I'm just providing a source of information but it really surprises me how many people on our side are so insistent that it's impossible for anything to have happened. I allow for the possibilty of either and ask, show me the proof. I can only imagine how frustrating it must feel to know the truth when one feels everybody else is going the wrong way.
I don't know the truth which is why I have questions and continue to seek answers whether I like the answers or not.

I have first hand knowledge of network security and how elections are run, which is why it’s so easy to dismiss the “how” piece of this conspiracy. The GOP provided the same type of statistical “analysis” in 2020, but everything fell to pieces when it came to trying to explain how it happened. Same thing here - the analysis is worthless unless you can explain the how, and no one has presented any options that stand up to scrutiny.

Oh, and let’s not forget that the Harris campaign has stated that they never led according to their polls, and that they have accepted the results. Time to move on.

When you add that together with other sources of information, it goes a long way to prove your position.

On the other hand, what about all of the bomb threats that were called in to swing state facilities where voting and counting were underway and had to be vacated thereby leaving ballots unattended. It seems to have been a coordinated effort whether perpetrated by Republicans or a foreign gov't that had a stake in our politics. Did this happen in the 2020 election?

Was the richest man in the world with a collection of computer geniuses working on behalf of a 34 count Felon whose freedom was on the line and wouldn't hesitate to cheat, working on the 2020 election?

When was the last time members of a previous administration came out against the President they served under let alone the scores of voters of the opposition party coming out in favor of the opposition.

I don't have an answer for the polls just prior to election day. If the election was legitimate, I don't think Republicans won so much as I think Democrats lost. The Felon is the punishment for the Nation, for the Democrats failure to win. No matter the reason. I would hate to see a repeat in '26 and '28. Remember, he said if Republicans got him into office, they wouldn't have to worry about voting again. Most of us assumed it was because he couldn't run again, not that he wouldn't leave office a la Putin.

By keeping the polls open longer. Election officials have stated it had no significant impact..

As to Musk, there has been no viable “how” presented, given the highly decentralized nature of our election system and the fact that in all states you can’t connect election equipment to the Internet.

Trump won because a large percentage of the population pays no attention to politics and blamed Biden for high prices. The economy was always the major issue of the election, and people were suffering. They still are and now we can use it to our advantage in 2026.

I would certainly like to hear the response from the pro cheater faction about no direct connection to the internet.

As for bomb threats not having an impact on the election, I was not aware, there were so many bomb threats until recently therefore I wasn't aware that it had no significant impact.

Finally, low information voters was a pretty obvious problem as evidenced by the number of undecided voters so close to the election.

Now, if I could just see a debate about the stastical anomalies I might change my opinion.