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highplainsdem

(58,341 posts)
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 02:35 PM Friday

Timothy Snyder: Why do headlines say "norms shattered" when what is meant is "laws broken" or "Constitution violated"?

Why do headlines say "norms shattered" when what is meant is "laws broken" or "Constitution violated"?

Timothy Snyder (@timothysnyder.bsky.social) 2025-09-26T17:32:52.758Z
33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Timothy Snyder: Why do headlines say "norms shattered" when what is meant is "laws broken" or "Constitution violated"? (Original Post) highplainsdem Friday OP
Yes! EarthAbides Friday #1
Finally someone (important) says that! To the average person spooky3 Friday #2
And to Republicans markodochartaigh Friday #19
Good question. NNadir Friday #3
Because it's our Fascist "media" Cha Friday #4
I'd just drop the "enabling" from your title, Cha. The M$M is fascist to its core. erronis Friday #7
Right? I used to say that and then Cha Friday #9
The use of "norms" has always bothered me MadameButterfly Friday #5
"Breaking norms" sounds like an alternate usage for "innovation." hay rick Yesterday #31
Because institutions like the media/press BaronChocula Friday #6
Maybe all their talk of "killing" and how "norm-ish" it is to do and say such things... BurnDoubt Friday #11
And yes, how about a thesaurus BaronChocula Friday #14
This message was self-deleted by its author sop Friday #8
Yep. kentuck Friday #10
The media framing gets to the point of being vomit inducing. nt moniss Friday #12
It has gotten to the point where markodochartaigh Friday #21
Excellent question! Thank you for asking it! liberalla Friday #13
Dems need to remind everyone crud Friday #15
I'll bet their lawyers require it. Kablooie Friday #16
I would still prefer "alleged crime" or "alleged lawbreaking" to "norms shattered." Nt spooky3 Friday #28
Yes, The norms reference is understatement, but there needs to be something in between. thesquanderer 23 hrs ago #32
And why doesn't the media call Trump out on his bottomless pit of lies? agingdem Friday #17
Agree malaise Friday #18
This x 1000. These people are just criminals. travelingthrulife Friday #20
Very good point. It is a kind of normalization suggesting it is just bad manners, not illegal. Martin68 Friday #22
Because a bunch of thugs are running our govt, with no oversight or even good Scrotus judgements to stop them mdbl Friday #23
... Solly Mack Friday #24
I miss the days of sitting with a cup of coffee and a newspaper. Buddyzbuddy Friday #25
Kick SheltieLover Friday #26
For the same reason they will say Trump mispoke or was inaccurate drray23 Friday #27
The SCOTUS majority has Trump's back. Frasier Balzov Friday #29
There is nothing "norma"al about what is going on. yellow dahlia Friday #30
With few execptions, our media is awful. CaptainTruth 22 hrs ago #33

EarthAbides

(371 posts)
1. Yes!
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 02:41 PM
Friday

I am so sick of the headlines that make this all seem so normal! Like I wrote before when Kamala Harris said, "Trump LIED to you!" Not the fascist pig broke a campaign promise....

spooky3

(37,928 posts)
2. Finally someone (important) says that! To the average person
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 02:42 PM
Friday

Who is not very interested in “politics”, breaking norms or bucking tradition may sound like bold, necessary change, among other reasons to make this distinction.

markodochartaigh

(4,150 posts)
19. And to Republicans
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 04:37 PM
Friday

who live in a bubble where the narrative that "the government is not the solution, the government is the problem" and "the government is controlled by left-wing politicians" breaking norms sounds like something that they would agree with.

Cha

(314,605 posts)
4. Because it's our Fascist "media"
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 03:14 PM
Friday

we're talking about.

TY and Thanks for pointing it out, Timothy Snyder.

Cha

(314,605 posts)
9. Right? I used to say that and then
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 03:42 PM
Friday

someone told me it should be "enabling" so I listened.

But I think you're right.. the owners that demand covering for the Fascist Takeover.. Thanks in Big Part to them.. are the same.. they don't give one shit about American Democracy.

MadameButterfly

(3,581 posts)
5. The use of "norms" has always bothered me
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 03:18 PM
Friday

No one cares about norms.
They care about breaking the law and autocracy.
Breaking norms sounds like a new clothing fashion.

hay rick

(9,070 posts)
31. "Breaking norms" sounds like an alternate usage for "innovation."
Sat Sep 27, 2025, 09:21 AM
Yesterday

It does reflect the reality that law-breaking that has been immunized by the Supreme Court or non-enforcement from the Department of Justice is effectively permitted.

BaronChocula

(3,376 posts)
6. Because institutions like the media/press
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 03:23 PM
Friday

are afraid of white conservatives for whom they tread lightly. It's an American tradition.

BurnDoubt

(1,054 posts)
11. Maybe all their talk of "killing" and how "norm-ish" it is to do and say such things...
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 03:50 PM
Friday

and the"media's" reluctance to consult a thesaurus has emboldened and supported their deplorability.
Can't help thinking it's all about the MONEY.

Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

markodochartaigh

(4,150 posts)
21. It has gotten to the point where
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 04:39 PM
Friday

The Overton Window is spinning so fast it is like watching clothes in a dryer.

crud

(1,072 posts)
15. Dems need to remind everyone
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 04:07 PM
Friday

every time they refer to the criminal president or his unlawful actions...that they are criminal and unlawful. They need to refer to the corrupt president and his corrupt Whitehouse as being corrupt. The threats to government workers is political corruption, the indictment of Comy is political corruption. I could go on. Force the media to report THAT! Make it THE message and tell the media what you are doing, so they talk about how dems are accusing the felon, Trump of corruption. Then they can start exploring why they have made their message 'corruption" and if it will work. They will get corruption experts on the TEE VEE and ask them to explain what it all means. They will force the R's to defend the criminal president and try to excuse or deny that he is corrupt. that is how to win this shutdown battle too.

thesquanderer

(12,780 posts)
32. Yes, The norms reference is understatement, but there needs to be something in between.
Sat Sep 27, 2025, 11:20 AM
23 hrs ago

They can't say laws broken, if a court hasn't (yet) found that to be the case (presumption of innocence until proven guilty). Constitution violated is not a factual statement until/unless the Supreme Court says so, because they are the ultimate arbiter of that. So no reputable news source will headline with these statements which are technically/legally false.

"Alleged" can be a useful qualifier, but it doesn't so well communicate that we do know that we do know that a person did something. IOW, an alleged shooter communicates that there definitely was a shooter, we just don't know for sure that this person did it. But with Trump there is no doubt that he did the thing, the doubt is only about whether it indeed did actually break a law or would be found to be unconstitutional by the court.

It seems like there should be a neat, concise term for this, but I can't think of any.

agingdem

(8,654 posts)
17. And why doesn't the media call Trump out on his bottomless pit of lies?
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 04:11 PM
Friday

Last edited Fri Sep 26, 2025, 04:58 PM - Edit history (1)

Instead they say he misspoke/exaggerated/embellished…

.and why does the media “translate” his toxic vomitus nonsense bullshit into “thought provoking discourse”?..

I say it’s the media’s slavering need for access and their palpable fear of being exiled

Martin68

(26,518 posts)
22. Very good point. It is a kind of normalization suggesting it is just bad manners, not illegal.
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 04:48 PM
Friday

mdbl

(7,435 posts)
23. Because a bunch of thugs are running our govt, with no oversight or even good Scrotus judgements to stop them
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 04:49 PM
Friday

So they just stoke fear in these weasel media companies.

Buddyzbuddy

(1,554 posts)
25. I miss the days of sitting with a cup of coffee and a newspaper.
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 05:07 PM
Friday

I just want the news. I don't need them to lean left or right, just report the facts. Don't get me started on broadcast news, jeez! I could live with FAUX because I knew what to expect but now all news strategizes the same. If it bleeds it leads. And it feels like I'm watching an old batman series, with all of the descriptors to get an emotional reaction such as "pow, slammed, bang, crushed, etc." Or "mislead instead of lied".
Just report the news without commentary.
I don't need to see a 2 hour car chase instead of the news and weather. The internet is not your competition, it's just another source of information. Report with accuracy, not speed.

drray23

(8,434 posts)
27. For the same reason they will say Trump mispoke or was inaccurate
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 05:11 PM
Friday

When in fact it was a bold faced lie.
They appease the fascists because they control the media.

Frasier Balzov

(4,580 posts)
29. The SCOTUS majority has Trump's back.
Fri Sep 26, 2025, 05:24 PM
Friday

And they won't refrain from reversing themselves when the next Democratic president wants to get things done for the common good.

CaptainTruth

(7,900 posts)
33. With few execptions, our media is awful.
Sat Sep 27, 2025, 12:35 PM
22 hrs ago

They should be ashamed, but I doubt they ever will be.

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