Too many anomalies malaise,

Why did Krasnov get election day surges in votes in only the swing states and not in any other states? Why didn't Kamala flip one red district to blue? Unheard of.

You are going to be hit with the machines aren't connected to the internet in 3..2..1..

Democrats won all or most of the down races. yet krasnov won his. I don't believe it.

The only people I know who believe krasnov won are the ones who voted for him.

Why weren't any done?

I ask the question every day as I watch the destruction and mayhem.

figuratively and literally.

We are watching billions of dollars being stolen every day.

We are watching billions of dollars of infrastructure and bureaucratic history being dismantled every day.

We watched USAID be smashed into oblivion - a waste of billions in dollars and millions in lives.

In November of 2024, I offered to contribute to a recount effort - I am sure others were willing to contribute as well.

A tragedy and a travesty.

Kamala Harris deserved to have those millions at her back.

Nobody admitted voting for the guy when asked in a high-end restaurant in Macomb County in February, including the server and the owner. Nobody. And that was a room with at least 30 people.

Though I live in Macomb I am mostly in Oakland County and I heard the same thing.

They assert but don't demonstrate the surge claims. But even if they did, shocking that it would be in the states most targeted. But we also know Republicans are more likely to vote on election day. The same way they did in 2020.

The evidence is ephemeral and dissipates on any scrutiny.

If you go to the election truth alliance YouTube channel, there is an interview on the Titus podcast which dives deeper into the statistics with multiple Charts and graphs and there are charts and graphs for all of the data analysis you can think of and shown in different types of graphs. For example the under performance chart. I would suggest watching one of the other podcasts and I believe his assertions are pretty much undeniable.

Let's take their "evidence" for North Carolina.

https://electiontruthalliance.org/analysis/north-carolina/

Their first point is down ticket races where Democrats performed relatively better than Harris. Apparently split ticket voting with the most polarizing candidate in history isn't a thing.

Then there's the claim that there are differences between early voting and election day voting. Sure they have graphs, but they don't explain how they came to their conclusions. Why did they pick a random country in Minnesota as their proof? And when hypothesis 1 that more Republican voters show up on election day compared to Democrats, well we know that's true. See all the red mirage talk in explaining why Trump was lying about the 2020 election. Discounting the truth to reach your conclusion isn't intellectually honest.

Their third point is that RFK Jr was ordered removed from the ballot, but they don't explain how that would impact the vote.

They finish with a call for an audit, but didn't review the audit results from North Carolina.

https://www.ncsbe.gov/about-elections/election-security/post-election-procedures-and-audits

How is any of that convincing evidence?

Would you take anything less than hand counted paper ballot recounts as proof of election fraud? I bet no, and that makes two of us.

Look at 2004. What was it, 16 states with official results outside of the exit poll margin of error, 15 of those favoring Bush, 14 of those flipping the state from Kerry to Bush? This didn't prove election fraud, but it sure suggested that hand counted paper ballot recounts would be a good idea.

And there's plenty I accept as evidence that the election wasn't stolen. For example all the protections in place including audits. That the election matched polls. That the Democratic elected officials who would have to be complicit or idiots that aren't crying election fraud.

Before I embark on a deep dive, and since you have already seen more of the data, do they show eg these heat maps for other random precincts?

If the raw data is readily available, it is trivial to generate these maps.

It only interferes with the grieving of the loss and facing the challenges in the current reality.

Musk being involved in that election always seemed suspect to me.

I'm not a teenager, but I do like this new slang.

Ask President Gore.

It was 1) an election administration issue (hanging chads aren’t an evil conspiracy) and 2) a strategic error by Gore that gave SCOTUS the “equal protection” excuse they were looking for to hand the election to Bush.

1) Let's not split hairs, ok? It was cheating. The media recount showed Gore winning every statewide recount scenario.
2) Yes. If only Gore had insisted on a statewide hand counted recount.

Of course, this has no bearing on the 54,000 mostly poor/minority people who were purged from voter rolls in Florida in 2000, against a court order, by Katherine Harris, the SoS under Jeb Bush. That made a difference too.

Election fraud - manipulating/flipping votes/vote tallies, is a very different act from voter suppression, or litigation after the fact to use the courts to obtain a specific outcome.

All are wrong and evil, but are distinct acts, not “splitting hairs”.

What is being alleged in these CT’s is specific, deliberate alteration of votes/vote tallies.

And there is no evidence that happened.

oh, right, there were no recounts completed, hence no evidence. You got me there, if no recounts are done, there is only circumstantial evidence, which is too easily ignored. You present a fascinating premise.

BTW, have you read The Conyers Report? Republican cheating is multifaceted. I could be convinced it didn't include election fraud, but just saying there is no evidence isn't doing it for me.

Some of it was from donations by DU members. None showed anything of any substance

The recounts paid for by Green Party donations in 2016 were not full hand counted paper ballot recounts, and we're not even completed in two of the three states, and like I said, no recounts give no evidence.

And recounts have to be requested by a candidate, and in many cases paid for by them.

Not sure what you’re alleging about 2016.

While chicanery and malfeasance abound in US elections in the form of voter suppression and disenfranchisement, there is zero verifiable evidence of actual fraud (altering votes or vote totals).

As Rudy said “we don’t have evidence, but we have theories”.

And now he’s been disbarred, along with Sidney Powell, John Eastman and many other lawyers who were stupid enough to jump in the “stop the steal” bandwagon.

Which is why no lawyer representing the Dems went before a judge to present their “theories” about 2024 fraud- because there wasn’t any, and they didn’t want to be disbarred.

2016 United States presidential election recounts - Wikipedia https://share.google/Q11qXUqiKbavHrdo4

The issues were given cursory coverage in the press of the time. Wikipedia has a pretty good summary.

As we seem to agree, no hand counted paper ballot recounts means no evidence of election fraud (except circumstantial evidence, which has been present in all Republican victories in our present century.)

No evidence of fraud was uncovered.

Hillary lost.

Wether votes are being purposefully manipulated or the machines simply don’t work the results appear to incorrect

And illegal voter suppression would certainly be election fraud

Not just Swing States.

When 90 million voters stay home.

I don't tend to buy into conspiracy theory, but on this, I can have no certainty, that's for sure.

None of the YouTube warriors are.

It ignores split ticket voting, it compares unlike districts, and so on.

magats and krasnov just pull numbers out of their collective ass. 300 million dead from overdoses. highest ratings in the history of creation. Inflation going down, jobs are up, tariffs are the best thing this FUCK ever did.

i'm still outraged that stephen miller, in the Oval Office, told a bald faced lie that an 0-9 decision that was in fact, a loss for the abomination administration was a 9-0 win. He said this directly to the president in the presence of the "press" (apparently they only allow "press" that is not concerned with reporting facts), on camera, on the record. Bald faced lie with no push back whatsoever, making sure that krasnov's cult and possibly even krasnov himself believe the lie.

They're like miles and years ahead of manipulation. The full time job of everyone in this abomination administration is Propaganda. Full stop.

He constantly says nonsense numbers, but the actual official data released by the government does not reflect those nonsense numbers. So far, there is no evidence any "official" data has been manipulated. There has been data that they have declined to release presumably because the numbers would reflect very poorly on Trump.

And I'm not aware of them even releasing any autism statistics. Trump made his Tylenol announcement without any science or data to back it up. He didn't quote any numbers, just said it was bad. No data manipulation needed.

I have written more than a hundred posts on here over the past couple months explaining my background (professional government statistician who worked on the BLS employment programs at the state level) and why it is 100% clear that BLS data is NOT being manipulated to this point in time. I'm not going to repeat everything because it's clear you're someone who will never listen . Suffice to say, the statisticians at BLS who produce that data are career civil servants (I personally know many of them) and to a person, not a single one will ever manipulate data for political purposes. They will resign first.

It should be obvious to even the most skeptical person that if they were manipulating the data, then we wouldn't have had a month where the US lost jobs and the recent gains would be far above the approximately 20,000 that they have been. Why would you believe they are manipulating the jobs data when they have been absolute garbage?

I guarantee if/when they try to release manipulated data, it will be obvious and numerous whistleblowers will go to the media about it.

How DARE you tell me to open my eyes. You're the one that needs to open your eyes. I know what I am talking about. You don't.

Go ahead and believe what you want. I know the truth. THEY ARE NOT MANIPULATING THE DATA!

I think Kamala won. Al Gore won. John Kerry won.

republicans believe that the ends justify the means. winning is everything, and it's all a zero sum game.

We even had the computer programmer admit he wrote the program to send votes from Ohio to a wareshed in Tennessee where the votes were flipped from Kerry to Shrub. The programmer was flying to DC to testify when his small plane crashed and yet people like us are called conspiracy nuts.

No wonder Republicans cheat, not enough people believe they cheat even when it's obvious.

W's freaking brother stopped the recount in Florida that would have given the election to Gore in order to allow the SC to pick the president.

I repeat, there were vote surges on election day for Krasnov, only in the swing states and in no other states. The surges were out of place to word it plainly for people to understand.

and the plane crash. not the first plane crash.

yeah, we shouldn't be conspiracy theorists. however Hillary was right about just about everything and definitely the vast right wing conspiracy. they've played the long game and as of this minute, it looks like they won.

fortunately time keeps on passing. I don't know if it will be in my lifetime, but I know they will fall eventually and democracy will be restored.

...and the plane crash.

but you reminded me of how reagan arranged to keep the hostages in Iran until after the election.

to stop negotiating with Johnson to stop the war. Nixon would have a much better deal for them if they waited until after he was elected. The Gop have been treasoners for a long time.

until after he was elected. They would give them a much better deal than the one that Johnson had already negotiated with the Vietnamese.

The gop has been treasoners for a long time

Dems shoulda fought harder.

it's like this shutdown shit. if there is a shutdown the republicans own it yet the old dyed in the wool decades in congress Democrats seem to think it would be preferable to capitulate for fear of having it be blamed on them.

Fear informs way too much of the thinking of these Democrats imo. Figure out what you stand for and fight for it and, especially now, never capitulate to republicans, never assume or even pretend that they act in good faith (they never do), and take it all the way. At least then if you lose, you know you did your damnedest.

ETA with this last election, the damage being done is so cataclysmic and catastrophic it defies imagination.

As Thom Hartmann said, "There has not been a Republican legitimately elected president since Dwight Eisenhower."

So painful to watch.

Remember how Republicans fought tooth and nail to prevent hand counted paper ballot recounts in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania? They were successful.

Yeah, yeah, Kamala won, the election was stolen, blah, blah. Funny, the GOP made the same claims in 2020. I reckon every election we have in the future (if there are any) will be disputed by the loser. And do you know how many times this particular "bombshell" has been bruited about the 'Net since the polls closed? More like a wet firecracker.

Stipulate it's true, so what? Who's gonna pull the present Boss out of the WH and install the "rightful" winner? There's nobody to bell that particular cat, so it is meaningless.

-- Mal

No different than Trump 2020 election deniers.

That's a big difference from 2024.

Last edited Wed Sep 24, 2025, 06:24 PM - Edit history (1)

And Harris’ undervote has been explained as “she just didn’t get the voter turn out” but
in reality the other side cheated and Theil/Palantir were running “digital janitor” that hid
the deleted and switched votes.

https://thiswillhold.substack.com/p/she-won-they-didnt-just-change-the

And SpaceX went live with satalite cell capabilities just before the election. And either way, Tangerine Ceaser didn't win in a "Landslide" he didn't even get 50%. It angers me that simple lies never get corrected with Taco.

D.T.C. (Direct To Cell Starlink)* with firmware patches that were put onto both
E.S.& S. and dominion voting systems central tabulators and operating systems.
This allowed for monitoring and manipulation of the data with out anybody noticing.


*
https://www.starlink.com/us/business/direct-to-cell?srsltid=AfmBOoqDuUskzdd1br1yX0s209WRRUgVe-gnU4Igq1McrRept_UBvCO1

And if we don't recognize their objective and try and stop it, we are handing the election to them...and their trickery.

Yesterday’s Atlantic:

The people who are still convinced Kamala won.

https://apple.news/AJFb2dghVTXWC1X3bIepozQ

There was no such thing in 2020, and there’s no such thing now.

“Forensic audits” are a made up concept to sow doubt because no state performs them, so the illogical conclusion is, there must be chicanery afoot.

All states audit their elections. To believe in 2024 elections fraud, you have to believe the Dem secs of state in multiple swing states are dishonest.

More from the Atlantic:

I’m talking about you pretending that many people would need to be involved, it’s not true and the video explains why

90 million people didn’t vote who could’ve.

That’s the only number you need to know.

Harris lost.

I’m a denialism denier, stuck firmly in the reality based community.

I believe it was stalin who said, “who votes doesn’t matter, it’s who counts the votes “

I reject them all as not being based in reality.

I was just thinking there hadn't been a big "Trump stole the election" thread here in a long time.

Thanks for the link! I hadn't seen that, but I had read that Substack and it was blatantly obvious to me it was total nonsense. As a professional statistician myself, I can say unequivocally that the author of that Substack does not have a clue about real statistics.

I thank you.

I even have doubts he won his first go-round.

Things looked "hinky" on election night 2016, as well. The way the numbers veered in the other direction for PA, MI, WI. It didn't "math" for me then, and still doesn't.

Hard but, sadly, not impossible.

If the 2024 vote was, in fact, manipulated, it will be interesting historically. But, in either case, there is nothing that can be done about it now. The troops are already preparing to invade American cities. Trump's brain trust: chiefly Miller but many mediocre others (Bondi, Carr, Hegseth, Patel, for example, but also SCOTUS' fascist leaning "conservatives", led by Roberts), are strategizing how to keep and broaden power by destroying and/or co-opting the remaining legal avenues of protest and law enforcement.

We are, in my opinion, fucked.

I will vote. Of course I will. But I feel that my vote is not going to matter much because the Fascist GOP has plans for their candidates in the next national election to cruise through to victory, winning Putinesque percentages of the vote.

All that's left for us (sans bloodshed) is to shut up and wait for the sound of the jackboot on the stairs or to write strongly worded letters from Yellow Knife, Canada.

We knock off this “Trump lost in 2034” bullshit and get busy winning 2026 and 2028

Or ever again. Never a legitimate one anyway.

No way could a depraved, insane, imbecilic traitor win fair-and-square.

I've felt this from day one and so have many people I've talked to.

if the votes in the last election were manipulated, what are we going to do to ensure they can't
duplicate their shenanigans in the midterms? If we don't take the House & Senate back in the
midterms I'm afraid Fascism is here to stay.

Very important

Everyone of us have our opinions, and our opinions ONLY. Now in 2026, and 2028 we will have (i hope we will) possibly the most important elections our great country will ever have. Now wouldn't it be nice to KNOW for sure if there was shenanigans that took place with that last election? For Gods sake in the states we have the MOST control, i don't care how but maybe a go fund me for the costs. Find out who would support these recounts!! I think there are very few of us that 100% trusts how honest that election was. There, i said my piece. Adding here, i'm not thinking of undoing what ALREADY is, but with THIS supreme court, we HAVE to find out for sure, then proceed with ALL eyes forward!!

and I'm talking higher ups with resources to do some surveys in these swing states were polls
showed we should win but didn't.

Pick out a couple counties and do a house by house canvas or send all voters a prepaid postcard
asking who they voted for.

It would not be that expensive to do and if we found BIG discrepancies that would open up all
kinds of doors for our side.

Or have there been surveys done already that I'm aware of ?????

The average of polls showed a tied race and that's basically what we got.

https://www.vox.com/2024-elections/382161/harris-trump-final-polls-2024-who-will-win

https://preview.realclearpolling.com/elections/president/2024

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/11/04/presidential-election-polls-2024-harris-trump/76041022007/

posted right here on DU.

I posted multiple poll averages that disputes your claim. An individual poll cherry picked because it said what someone wanted to believe isn't as credible as more.

Where did I supply a "An individual poll cherry picked" by me you seem to be upset about?

I clicked on one of your links and it showed Democrats leading in polls but we were losing ground
getting close to the election.

YOU WANT PROOF? GO READ THE ARTICLES YOU SUPPLIED!

ARE YOU THE INFAMOUS POLL-BOY ? Have a nice day, I'll not respond again.

Presenting evidence is a pretty important part of a discussion. The links I provided showed polls were well within the margin of error and we're behind in many of the swing states. You're entitled to express whatever opinions you like, including calling me names as you did, but the reality is, the narrative you created isn't correct. Not sure why that inspired an all caps post.

it's human nature to share good news, and selectively ignore unfavorable news.
We all know that every poll that showed us in the lead was trumpeted, and the few that did get posted that showed tRump in the lead were dismissed.

Why would any “higher up” in the party waste money chasing ridiculous conspiracy theories that they already know are nonsense?

Not to mention they are a vicious attack on the character of Kamala Harris.

The idea that “ we the people “ can’t hand count the votes is ridiculous, what are they hiding?

I understand Marc Elias has made statements that no way was there election cheating took place. He is one of our best and smartest lawyers. That's why i do believe what he's saying. I, being very dependent on their thoughts think he's correct, BUT i cannot help mixed feelings at times. TSF CHEATS at everything, and i mean everything, so he's NOT beyond screwing us all. The reason i posted my thread is because i wish we were 100% sure of no problems in 2026 and 28. I know people here don't like stolen election talk, but that's how i feel.