Which is annoying and rude but not illegal. I can't believe this woman and the conductor really shocks me.

This is how many men sit these days.
I don’t care how they sit.
The old lady must be sexually preoccupied.

Last edited Mon Sep 22, 2025, 12:41 PM - Edit history (1)

is thinly disguised aggression. I haven't (personally) seen anybody arrested for it - but I have seen where offenders get some shoves and pointed push-back (as gentle reminder of 'manners') - but almost exclusively when the correction is coming from a fitter (and more dominant?) male. (which serves to illustrate something of the dynamic happening)

But it's crap behavior - and let's not play the game of pretending we don't know about it.

Yes taking up excessive space is annoying but on that train it would have only been an issue if it was crowded.

in response to another post, that may not have reflected the situation the OP was addressing.
But - personal experience with boorish (and what I contend, deliberately invasive and offensive) behavior - in my words 'thinly disguised aggression' - led to my posting.

let's not pretend ... like we don't know ...

Now - somebody calling the cops .... Takes us in a different direction.

And there were plenty of seats, so manspreading (I agree, rude and aggressive) couldn't have been the issue either.

I'm guessing he was slouching and maybe appeared to be sleeping? People get on our light rail in Seattle and sleep but I wouldn't call the police. I wish the other passengers would have spoken up.

My mom doesn't like when people wear baseball hats in restaurants and has been known to scold total strangers for it (till my sister said she wasn't going out to dinner with her again until she stopped). Who knows what the woman saw or wanted. It's upsetting. I don't blame him for being so vocal, it was smart because it helped document what was taking place.

he was sitting in one seat and had his feet up on another.

https://www.ctpost.com/news/article/alex-o-keefe-arrested-the-bear-writer-mta-ct-train-21061647.php

I can see asking him not to do that (if he was), but if it was all on the same seat, I don't see how there is an issue. I often take up two seats if I have groceries (unless the car is full). The seats on the Seattle light rail are small and uncomfortable.

there is a lot of discussion here about what he MIGHT have been doing. We really don't know unless the above article explains, and it appears he wasn't sitting close enough to affect her personally. I'm guessing the arrest wouldn't have happened to a White person. And we wouldn't be hearing abaout this if he wasn't an accomplished person with some clout to speak out.

If she really said "You aren't the minority anymore," then we know this was about race.

Not really about how he was sitting.

And not sitting around young males.

So their legs are sprawled out, touching the women next to them?

Yes I agree that is not OK.

It is the invasion of space. Way more than once, I've had to sit in an uncomfortably small space (trains, buses, and planes are the worst) because some man insists in taking my space with his "manspread" legs.

(Or, not quite as bad, a man uses this tactic to prevent someone from sitting next to him - forcing me to stand or sit in a different (often less comfortable) seat.)

I have not witnessed or experienced this behavior.
But I would not like it one bit.

Some men like to take up all the space.
And intimidate others.

I had the window seat, and a manspreader was in the middle seat, then near the end of the flight he fell asleep and toppled over on me. I could not wake him, or get the attention of the flight attendant. I actually had to crawl out over the top of the seat in front of me. Not fun.

or be passed out from too much booze. Uses it as an excuse to drape themeless
all over the women next to them. Sometimes it gets much worse.

Wow that is awful. You were trapped.
What if there had been an emergency.
Or were not able to crawl over the seat in front of you.

I would have started yelling for help I think.

When I crawled over the seat in front of me, he flopped over completely - still out.

The looks on the face of the flight attendants when they realized I was trying to get their attention because of him would have been priceless - had it not been for the potential for danger.

If he had tried anything, I'd have stood up and tossed him over onto the person in the aisle seat (or the aisle - it is possible it was only two seats across)

Wonder if he also taken some downers or ambien to sleep on the plane.

He posed a safety threat to passengers and crew.
You were trapped in the event of an emergency and the crew would have
been diverted from their crisis duties trying maneuver around
the man or wake him up.

And agreed as to the safety issues. It is one of the more bizarre situations I've encountered - I was quite surprised that none of the flight attendants who passed by when I tried to get their attention were at all interested in what was going on. What wasn't clear until I crawled out and informed them they had a passenger who was passed out was that they hadn't interfered because they believed we were together.

Passengers tanked up on booze and drugs acting out or passed out.
They put everyone on ignore perhaps.

The lesson here is make more noise.
Say loudly "I need help."

And asked to be moved to another seat.
They can ask a big male passenger to take your place.

I once read a story, I may get the facts someone wrong but the gist
is that a woman and child POC were being harassed by the man sitting next to
them on a long flight.

He was a big guy calling them names and being aggressive. Other passengers
complained and since there were no seats available the FAs explained the situatin
and asked for male volunteers to switch places.

The funny and satisfying part is that two huge male bruisers were glad to help and sat
on either side of the abuser. And made it clear he needed to shut his pie hole.
The guy was quiet for the rest of the flight. The mother was so grateful.

I know there was a reason. He was a black male - and I suspect part of it was that I didn't feel threatened - just annoyed, and I was likely more concerned about how they might treat him. Once the flight attendants started looking the other way when I tried to get their attention without making a big scene, I was interested in what it would take for them to recognize something wasn't right. It was also a relatively short flight (I think under an hour.) Had I felt threatened - or had I felt he was in medical danger - it would have been a different story.

The situation was a bit more complicated.

And the FAs were also obviously ignoring you and didn't want to deal with it
on a short flight. Not worth the hassle.

Yes and you didn't feel in danger.

I would have ignored it on a short flight too.

But I am an Air Force kid and alert to in flight safety issues.
And this was a safety issue whether you felt threatened or not.
You were blocked from emergency evacuation.

And seated next to someone who appeared unconscious.

But short flight, it all sorts itself out quickly.

It doesn't justify arrest. But, I've been the victim of ordinary manspreading - being forced to squeeze into an already too-small space on a plane or train because a man (it always is) refuses to pull his legs out of my space.

jackass woman who started this garbage.

I live in Maryland. I want to know if the state of Maryland was involved in this.

Metro-North serves customers throughout New York and Connecticut on our Harlem, Hudson, New Haven, Port Jervis, and Pascack Valley lines.

https://www.mta.info/agency/metro-north-railroad

Good information.

Manages all public transportation in the city

I've been waiting my whole life for that.

$$$$

Was he sitting on a basket of baby chicks? I mean what possible sitting posture could
prompt this? Oh, I get it - he was sitting while black.

been arrested for disturbing the peace with their vile conduct.

This is why.

Incidents like this serve several purposes in amplifying racist power structures. One purpose is to remind all other Black men that they are vulnerable and ought to play along or else.

It's really reprehensible and reflects the worst impulses in people.

"Resisting what?"

That's a very good question. Under arrest for what?

The police told me to leave the train, I refused and asked what was I doing illegally. They said I was disturbing the peace by not leaving the train.

Reminds me of the heartbreaking story of when Ella Fitzgerald and Dizzy got arrested for PERFORMING for WIPEPO. Heartsick that this is still happening.

Link to tweet

The man wasn’t doing anything wrong. She’s despicable, and so are those cops.

I'd love to see that old hag outed and made very uncomfortable. Maybe TizzyEnt and Danesh will take up the case! Embarrass that local police force.

misogynistic. Look up "hag" in wiki.

It's just too bad we're not able to run it by Lenny Bruce and George Carlin first.

Did you see 'The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel'? I saw like the first 2 seasons and one of her encounters and mentors was with Lenny Bruce! Really was a great show.

As I recall we were going to watch it a while back and something else took over. I'll put this on our 'possiblities' list. Thanks!

But now, for some reason I feel like rewatching The Blair Witch Project, Hocus Pocus, and The Witches of Eastwick. I also bumped into Häxan, which is a 1922 Swedish Danish silent film which could be fun. Free on YouTube, search for häxan 1922 full movie. I posted a link but it gets disabled when transferred to DU.

SJP was so cute in 'Hocus Pocus'.

She is either frightened for the trouble she caused or not all there. I hope she gets sued big time! This is disgraceful. Next up young women not acting lady like hauled off to jail for god knows what.

Just saying, she’s either startled at the ruckus she caused….or has a problem. I’ve seen that look before in my elders. Not trying to be rude but I did give two options.

that no one else spoke up for O'Keefe.

Destroyed his day and needless to say his navigating this screwed up country. Yup, I’ll apologize to her when he gets justice. Like I said I gave two options. You choose or invent your own. I’m out.

I'm always wary of videos like this because they never show the before and after. I've seen plenty on social media that claim to "prove" something, and when you watch the actual video, it doesn't give the whole story. Then you read the news later and it's a whole different story than what's in the video. But here...

But what in the hell could he have been doing to that woman??? I mean, I thought maybe he was slouched and blocking the aisle or something. But her seat is behind his and isn't even part of the same set of seats.

It's absurd that he isn't being told WHY he's being arrested and detained. That's the part that really bothers me. The police can just grab someone on a train, put them in handcuffs and take them off without an explanation? Every law enforcement office now thinks they can behave like ICE and get away with it?

We know two Karens. One is a veterinary technician, the other a retired high school teacher. They are two of the nicest people.
Please stop using that term.

Mr. O'Keefe uses the term in his Instagram post that is appended in the OP. So tell that to him.

Trump and his minions keep saying that it's dangerous to ride the subway. I expect the local authorities are hypersensitive about any appearance of "crime.'

In this case it was an older white woman who apparently said she felt unsafe or something, and we see the racist response.

Trump encourages the worst behavior in everyone.

The woman
Train
Cops

Go to the newspapers and TV

Marches and protests

And then really get serious

The only way to stop this is shining the light! This is disgraceful. In 2009 officers with dogs boarded trains in Grand Junction, CO and Salt Lake and looked up brown people to inspect papers. The train employee, not sure if he was engineer or what cornered the officers on board and told them to stop targeting his passengers. He said the same passengers had been inspected/ targeted in AZ. The officers even walked across the top of the cars with the dogs. It was stomach churning. My heart goes out to non whites and women. We are truly f-ed!

They had no RAS let alone probable cause to remove him from the train.

…that and I didn’t see a train representative there. They will most certainly be involved in the fallout. With any luck video will surface of what the infraction looked like!

To get him off the train, and they better have a pretty good reason for such a trespass order to remove him from a public accommodation like a train operated by the government. Even then he needs to be notified that he is being trespassed and given the opportunity to exit the train without being detained.

The officer backed down too.

and at which MTA station the train was actually stopped.

Inquiring minds want to know!

was l, way way out of line. She came in hot. Sue them.

or how it relates to my questions. Clarify?

That will get eyeballs on it.

No RAS for a detention and this was more than a detention. By removing him from the train, that was an arrest which requires probable cause.

He should get himself a lawyer.

It matters who that mean old you know what is. She needs to pay the price of public shaming for her 'Miss Anne' behavior. Guarantee that's not the first time she's White Supremacisted up around non-white people.

Those people never change. The American White Supremacist has been the same since 1619.

They never change.

Am I awake? Mind. Blown.

I can't imagine anything in that context that would be offensive, unless he wasn't wearing pants.

On a side note--I love that movie!

(If only I could remember where I saw it--The Guardian? NYT?) He was sitting with his legs up, using two seats to stretch out. Okay, against the rules, blah blah but hardly worthy of an arrest! Handcuffs!? Etc.?

Argh.

Way too much ugly is showing.

... or this country is going back to the 50's. The politicians are waiting for us to complain loud enough and big enough so they have the fortitude to stand up for us.
There is not enough dissent.
I join the white hairs 3 days a week to protest. I don't think anyone is afraid of us. I am losing all hope. What the fuck is it going to take to get people in the streets like they do in France and other countries?

When the woman complained to the conductor, the conductor should have told her the man was doing nothing wrong. When the conductor called the police, the police should have said the man was doing nothing wrong. This is insane.

for making a false report.

I originally wrote 1954, but went for what I went for. Also, I am an old lady who actually remembers what happened after Brown vs Board of Education, and it was ugly as sin.

than their posture while sitting on the subway. What if you were on your way to an important appointment and then you had to waste your time with this bullshit.

Seems he has a platform.

and I rode the MTA back and forth from Manhattan to visit him several times while he was working toward his Master's and then Doctorate. I never encountered any issues with racism when on those trains. I never heard any stories from him, either, in all the time he and classmates would go into the city riding the MTA.
WTF has gotten in to people?

So sorry, bigtree.

❤️💧

He said that shit went away long ago.

They would all feature prominently in a future script he'd be writing.

"....so she went to the conductor and complained. The conductor called the police and stopped the train."
The conductor should have just moved the woman to a different seat. Calling the police, stopping the train (the trains don't run on time if a black man isn't sitting up straight?) was all unnecessary.
Yeah, the police's solution is to arrest someone. Or to shoot them. Luckily, THAT didn't happen.

"You're disturbing the peace by being on the train" bc one pissy white woman complained for no reason ?
Arrggggg!!!

No one else complained. And they didn't even talk to her. 😑

Oh, Mr. O'Keefe, I'm sorry you had to endure yet another abuse living while Black.
Feck!

I remember that napping Black student incident

So we don't know whether she came in through the entrance/exit by her seat. Ot she came from the the other end of the car, and passed by Mr O'Keefe. More likely the close by entrance.

To the dementia comment - she had enough presence of mind to go get a conductor! (Who probably should of told her to let it be)

She's in the end of the car double facing seats in the set closest to the exit so she's not even next to him, or in front of him in the next seat. If he happened to have his leg sticking out in the aisle it's still no reason to be arrested, and would really be rude only if he didn't pull it in when someone heading one way or the other wants to get by.

Of course, she could be so racist that she was upset he was facing in her direction. Seems like there might have been other seats available.

I guess we'll see if more info emerges. Hoping Mr O'Keefe will get a good lawyer. Just wow.

Now, was he breaking the rules and behaving like a jerk (by not moving his feet) before or after somebody provoked this behavior from him? I'll wait for the evidence.

But I want to know why he didn't move his feet. I'm for obeying rules, especially when the elderly are involved.

Not obeying rules, and not standing up for people standing up for rules hurts the reputation of the person who didn't obey the rules and the reputation of any group that tolerates it.