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MayReasonRule

(3,850 posts)
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 08:01 AM Sunday

New research: Citizens United Can Be Made Irrelevant Via Changes To State Corporation Law

Last edited Mon Sep 22, 2025, 09:04 AM - Edit history (2)

🔹
Click Screenshot For Website

🔹 Full report

🔹 This is the regular deep dive (20:06) Audio Summary

🔹 This is the brief version if you can't even spend that long (1:49) Executive Audio Summary

Here are the summary quotes that provide the basic context of the argument:
Justice Byron White's dissent 1986 SCOTUS Bowers v. Hardwick:

"The state need not let it's own creation consume it."

🔸 Corporate rights: ➪ Courts Protect
🔸 Corporate powers: ➪States Grant
==================================================

Analysis:
Fifteen years after Citizens United opened the floodgates of corporate and dark money, the Center for American Progress has figured out how to slam them back shut.

On Monday, CAP released "The Corporate Power Reset That Makes Citizens United Irrelevant"

This groundbreaking plan is the first challenge to Citizens United with a strong chance of surviving legal review. It rests on bedrock constitutional and corporate law—and every state in America can act on it right now. Montana is already moving forward as the test case

Here’s the move: Corporations are creatures of state law. They start with zero powers, and states choose which powers to grant. When a state rewrites its corporation laws to no longer grant the power to spend in politics, that power simply does not exist. And without the power, there’s no right to protect.

The result is sweeping: No corporate or dark money in ballot measures, local races, state elections—or even federal elections within the state.

What seems to have happened is 100 years ago, states gave corps every power to do everything legal under the law, not dreaming that that would mean unlimited spending in elections. When 2010 and Citizens United rolled around, SCOTUS said, well, spending in politics is legal, so that must be on the list of powers given to corps when they gave them the power to do anything legal. And if they have the power to do it, they have the right to do it.

This whole effort says: Um, no. That was never meant to be on the list of powers we handed our corps, and to be extra clear about it this time, so you don’t screw this up again, we’re going to pass legislation that makes absolutely clear that that political-spending power is NOT on the list of powers we give out corporations.

This doesn’t overturn Citizens United or violate it. It just clearly creates a new kind of corporation – the kind states thought they were creating all along – that does not have the power to spend in politics.

Two more quick points:

Supremacy Clause: we’re not regulating a right; we’re defining the corporate vehicle so it doesn’t include that power. Rights protect an existing power. If the state never grants that power to its corporations, there’s no right to attach to. People and PACs still speak.

Foreign corporations: states already say an out-of-state company can’t exercise any power in the state that a local corporation doesn’t have. So Delaware/Wyoming/Nevada charters don’t create a loophole inside the state that adopts this.


Further discussion with the author at reddit/r/law


65 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
New research: Citizens United Can Be Made Irrelevant Via Changes To State Corporation Law (Original Post) MayReasonRule Sunday OP
Nice to have a little hope Easterncedar Sunday #1
We need more ideas like this newdeal2 Sunday #2
Posted here on DU earlier this week mtngirl47 Sunday #16
Indeed, This Is Step #1 MayReasonRule Sunday #17
It's long, long overdue. xuplate Sunday #3
It is! The Citizens United decision happened 15 years ago, and has been destroying our country since. Scrivener7 Sunday #6
So what would be the result if WestMichRad Sunday #4
It appears that if you get Delaware on board, you get the vast majority of corporations. 81% in 2024. Scrivener7 Sunday #7
Great point! WestMichRad Sunday #9
Indeed, That Was My First Thought As Well Until They Mentioned Deleware Within The Audio Summary MayReasonRule Sunday #18
I wonder if this would cause corporations to leave Blue states MadameButterfly Sunday #26
While A Fair Concern... ProfessorGAC Sunday #49
It seems as if Delaware is the most advantageous state for larger companies, Scrivener7 Sunday #54
Very blue state. Delaware voted more than 56% for Harris in 2024 Wednesdays Sunday #59
But to do this, 70sEraVet Sunday #5
But if you got Delaware and the blue states, you cover a lot of the necessary ground. Scrivener7 Sunday #8
Could Delaware lose its status as the preferred state then? Lucky Luciano Sunday #11
That was my first thought as well... SickOfTheOnePct Sunday #12
They Discuss This Very Matter Within The Posted Audio Summary MayReasonRule Sunday #19
Instead of corporate loss Marthe48 Sunday #20
OK, but existing corporations probably wouldn't do that right away. Scrivener7 Sunday #13
The report addresses this newdeal2 Sunday #15
But, tell me if I understand this right: a state can regulate a corporation's activities to Scrivener7 Sunday #60
Dead On Point MayReasonRule Sunday #62
This message was self-deleted by its author Lucky Luciano Sunday #10
How would a state prevent TV commercials from another state from entering their airwaves? MichMan Sunday #14
Regional ads are used all the time. Add a regulation, and use that same technology. Scrivener7 Sunday #21
Yes, and if you live in the vicinity of a state border, you see or hear them all the time. MichMan Sunday #22
OK. So? Are you saying it shouldn't be done because a few people at the border will Scrivener7 Sunday #24
Because that would be overturned under numerous FCC, interstate commerce, and First Amendment grounds MichMan Sunday #30
What would be overturned? You'd be limiting the money from the corporations being spent anywhere. Scrivener7 Sunday #34
So Illinois could pass a law not allowing a corporation chartered in South Dakota from airing TV ads in Indiana? MichMan Sunday #39
No. It has nothing to do with that. Delaware passes the law. All the corporations that are chartered Scrivener7 Sunday #46
Has Delaware indicated they support it? MichMan Sunday #51
Oh, jeez. Maybe read the article. Scrivener7 Sunday #52
The article doesn't mention the odds of Delaware passing it. MichMan Sunday #53
Well, then, you should call the Center for American Progress and tell them you have more important things to do Scrivener7 Sunday #55
😁😁 MayReasonRule Monday #63
It's really a great idea. It doesn't take care of the billionaires and their pacs, but it does Scrivener7 Monday #64
Hell Yeah! Thanks Scrivener7! MayReasonRule Monday #65
Lol No. What Reeks Of Authoritarianism Is Having The Government Run By Corporations It's The Very Definition Of Fascism MayReasonRule Sunday #28
Waiting to hear how you prevent TV and Radio ads from other states from crossing state lines MichMan Sunday #31
There Are Technological Challenges, Nonetheless This Would Have A Profoundly Positive Impact Overall MayReasonRule Sunday #33
I still don't get your issue. It's a matter of where the corporations incorporate, not where ads go. Scrivener7 Sunday #35
If I understand you, if Illinois passed this law, any corporation from Illinois couldn't make political contributions MichMan Sunday #41
The vast majority of corporations are incorporated in Delaware. Delaware passes the law. Scrivener7 Sunday #48
I get what MichMan is saying... SickOfTheOnePct Sunday #43
No. It's not the state that's involved. It's the corporation. It's not the location of the ad that's restricted, Scrivener7 Sunday #50
Rec! Ponietz Sunday #23
Early in our history, corporations existed in a much more limited scope for a reason ToxMarz Sunday #25
Won't they all just .... Mustellus Sunday #27
They Discuss This Within The Twenty MInute Audio Linked Within The Body Of The Post MayReasonRule Sunday #29
What's to stop the MAGA SCOTUS from declaring the rewritten state laws unconstitutional? Fiendish Thingy Sunday #32
States Grant Corporations Particular Powers And Without That Power Corporations Have No Rights To Contest MayReasonRule Sunday #36
Doesn't answer my question Fiendish Thingy Sunday #37
Happy Sunday Again Y'all - I Really Appreciate Folks Like You That Desire To Dig Into The Heart Of The Matter MayReasonRule Sunday #38
Thank you for the deep dive, but this begs the question: Fiendish Thingy Sunday #40
Probably because Uncle Joe Sunday #42
No Doubt That There Are Officers Of The Court Within This Forum That Might Provide Greater Insight... MayReasonRule Sunday #45
Jeez. That's beautiful. Great find, MayReasonRule. You've made my day. Scrivener7 Sunday #61
You got me! SickOfTheOnePct Sunday #44
Here Ya' Go... MayReasonRule Sunday #47
I'm sure it's that you're just smarter than all the people in CAP who've been studying this. Scrivener7 Sunday #56
If only there was a lot of dark money behind it, it might have a chance of passing MichMan Sunday #57
Thanks for the post. cksmithy Sunday #58

Scrivener7

(57,301 posts)
6. It is! The Citizens United decision happened 15 years ago, and has been destroying our country since.
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 08:41 AM
Sunday

Glad someone is finally looking at how to work around it.

But there's no excuse for it to have taken this long.

WestMichRad

(2,652 posts)
4. So what would be the result if
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 08:41 AM
Sunday

… some states (for instance, blue states) made this change to their laws, and others didn’t? Corporations chartered in some states could do political spending, while those chartered in others couldn’t? That would be an enormous imbalance…

Scrivener7

(57,301 posts)
7. It appears that if you get Delaware on board, you get the vast majority of corporations. 81% in 2024.
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 08:53 AM
Sunday
https://corp.delaware.gov/stats/
Apparently, 81% of IPOs in 2024 incorporated in Delaware.

When I first read your comment, I thought yes, it would make blue states bluer and red states redder, and put purple states in jeopardy of becoming red. But because of Delaware, I don't think that would be true.

MayReasonRule

(3,850 posts)
18. Indeed, That Was My First Thought As Well Until They Mentioned Deleware Within The Audio Summary
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 10:15 AM
Sunday

MadameButterfly

(3,581 posts)
26. I wonder if this would cause corporations to leave Blue states
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 10:53 AM
Sunday

or even Delaware? How important is making political donations vs. other factors for where corporations locate? And why is Montana, a red state, leading the charge? Does it have a chance to pass there?

I'm leery after Citizens United that SCOTUS will allow it to be undermined this way. If they believe corporations are people, they can craft a response that keeps it that way.

But of course, we have to try.

ProfessorGAC

(74,616 posts)
49. While A Fair Concern...
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 12:45 PM
Sunday

...incorporation in Delaware has long been preferred because of all the corporate favorable aspects.
For 100 years, it was preferred and corporations couldn't spend untold sums on politics.
This would be no different than before 2010.
Besides, political contributions are, under current law, an expense. If they quit massive political expenditures, expenses go down, so margins go up.
Shareholders are just as happy; maybe happier if they don't share the executuves' politics.
This is probably not a compelling to dissolve & reincorporate. Lots of cost, not much return.

Scrivener7

(57,301 posts)
54. It seems as if Delaware is the most advantageous state for larger companies,
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 01:15 PM
Sunday

or for companies that want to become larger companies. https://gimmelaw.com/best-state-for-incorporation

And tax structures have a really huge effect on profitability. Delaware is kind of the gold standard in terms of established law, etc.

But there is some competition for smaller companies from a few other states.

And of course, nothing's to say other states can't jump on the bandwagon for this.

But I can't imagine it's easy to de-charter and then re-charter your company (if those are actually words) in order to make political donations. I have no idea what the "break even" point to do that would be, but I imagine it's high. So I imagine some wouldn't do it, and others would take a while to get it done.

And in the meantime, corporate money in politics is vastly reduced. And we need all the breathing room we can get.

Wednesdays

(20,820 posts)
59. Very blue state. Delaware voted more than 56% for Harris in 2024
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 04:27 PM
Sunday

And hasn't voted Republican for president since 1988. So there's that.

70sEraVet

(4,931 posts)
5. But to do this,
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 08:41 AM
Sunday

We need politicians who aren't owned by corporations! You won't find many in MY state, Tennessee.

Scrivener7

(57,301 posts)
8. But if you got Delaware and the blue states, you cover a lot of the necessary ground.
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 08:56 AM
Sunday

And Kamala won Delaware by 15 points.

Lucky Luciano

(11,757 posts)
11. Could Delaware lose its status as the preferred state then?
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 09:04 AM
Sunday

Maybe they all move to incorporate in South Dakota.

SickOfTheOnePct

(8,671 posts)
12. That was my first thought as well...
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 09:07 AM
Sunday

...if Delaware were to pass this, would the cost to corporations be worth what they're gaining by current policies in Delaware.

And you can be sure that a red state (FL, NC, TN, TX, etc.) would step into the breach and move towards making their laws as friendly to corporations as DE is now.

Not saying it shouldn't be tried, but no state-based solution is linear.

MayReasonRule

(3,850 posts)
19. They Discuss This Very Matter Within The Posted Audio Summary
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 10:18 AM
Sunday

They conclude that the costs and obstacles for relocating within another state are onerous enough so as to preclude the likelihood of such an occurrence.

Marthe48

(21,930 posts)
20. Instead of corporate loss
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 10:24 AM
Sunday

wouldn't they be saving money by not donating to politics? Maybe the corporations could use the money to give raises and benefits to their employees.

Yes, I know..

Scrivener7

(57,301 posts)
13. OK, but existing corporations probably wouldn't do that right away.
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 09:12 AM
Sunday

It would take a few years for the numbers to go against us, and in the meantime, we could make a lot of headway on reversing the mess we're in.

And it looks like Delaware is only less attractive than SD in the renewal fee. They could easily adjust that.

newdeal2

(4,219 posts)
15. The report addresses this
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 09:52 AM
Sunday

From my read, state of incorporation doesn’t mean that other states can’t regulate that corporation’s activities in their state. So no, it doesn’t matter if they move to TX or not.

Scrivener7

(57,301 posts)
60. But, tell me if I understand this right: a state can regulate a corporation's activities to
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 06:26 PM
Sunday

honor the state's laws. BUT say the corporation operates in Texas but was incorporated in Delaware. Texas can't change the nature of Delaware corporation. And if Delaware says the nature of the corporation is that it can only donate X amount to politics, then Texas can't override that. If the corporation goes against Delaware's rules, no matter what state it is operating in, it loses it's status as a Delaware corporation, and is subject to all the tax nightmares that would cause.

Response to 70sEraVet (Reply #5)

MichMan

(16,000 posts)
22. Yes, and if you live in the vicinity of a state border, you see or hear them all the time.
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 10:40 AM
Sunday

How do you prevent someone in Michigan, for example, of receiving TV or radio broadcasts from Toledo, which is only a few miles away? Some AM stations have signals that can travel to multiple states

Jamming of broadcast and radio transmissions across state lines, if that is even possible ? Good luck with that being allowed. Seems to reek of authoritarianism.

Scrivener7

(57,301 posts)
24. OK. So? Are you saying it shouldn't be done because a few people at the border will
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 10:42 AM
Sunday

hear ads?

MichMan

(16,000 posts)
30. Because that would be overturned under numerous FCC, interstate commerce, and First Amendment grounds
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 11:02 AM
Sunday

You could limit outside money being spent directly on local or state elections, but that would be the extent of it. I doubt you could just target corporations and allow it from other sources.

Scrivener7

(57,301 posts)
34. What would be overturned? You'd be limiting the money from the corporations being spent anywhere.
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 11:19 AM
Sunday

MichMan

(16,000 posts)
39. So Illinois could pass a law not allowing a corporation chartered in South Dakota from airing TV ads in Indiana?
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 11:52 AM
Sunday

and preventing the ads from crossing the airspace into Chicago?

Scrivener7

(57,301 posts)
46. No. It has nothing to do with that. Delaware passes the law. All the corporations that are chartered
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 12:39 PM
Sunday

in Delaware (81% of new corporations last year, and probably high percentage of already incorporated entities) cannot donate to political candidates anywhere above a proscribed amount or level without losing their tax structure designation.

So it's not about Michigan seeing Indiana ads. It's about all the corporations contributing a tiny percentage to political causes that they can contribute now. So the place the ads are seen doesn't enter into it. The benefit is that there will be vastly fewer dollars spent by corporations to make ads. Everywhere. And it doesn't matter where the ad was made and where it was seen. It only matters that a company incorporated in Delaware can now only donate a fraction of the current spending to make ads.

MichMan

(16,000 posts)
51. Has Delaware indicated they support it?
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 12:56 PM
Sunday

Delaware has the majority of corporations because they are very corporate friendly. What makes you think they will pass it?

MichMan

(16,000 posts)
53. The article doesn't mention the odds of Delaware passing it.
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 01:14 PM
Sunday

They certainly could, but will they?

Until there is pending legislation with widespread support in Delaware, it is merely an academic exercise.

Scrivener7

(57,301 posts)
55. Well, then, you should call the Center for American Progress and tell them you have more important things to do
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 01:27 PM
Sunday

than read about viable solutions to one of the most damaging problems facing our country.

Let them know they shouldn't let you be exposed to those solutions unless those solutions are fully complete and enacted.

MayReasonRule

(3,850 posts)
63. 😁😁
Mon Sep 22, 2025, 08:54 AM
Monday


They're just rolling out this effort this week.

They're looking for people and institutions who would be willing to champion the effort, either through a ballot initiative or through the legislature.

Google around, ask around and let 'em know what you learn!

Tom Moore can be contacted at tmoore@americanprogress.org.

Scrivener7

(57,301 posts)
64. It's really a great idea. It doesn't take care of the billionaires and their pacs, but it does
Mon Sep 22, 2025, 08:56 AM
Monday

take out a huge chunk of change. I hope it works.

I'll call my reps about it.

MayReasonRule

(3,850 posts)
28. Lol No. What Reeks Of Authoritarianism Is Having The Government Run By Corporations It's The Very Definition Of Fascism
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 11:01 AM
Sunday

Blowing up Citizens United would be an enormous step towards ensuring our return to reason's rule.

Returning to reason's rule is the only way that we restore our freedoms.

This is an excellent first step.

MichMan

(16,000 posts)
31. Waiting to hear how you prevent TV and Radio ads from other states from crossing state lines
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 11:07 AM
Sunday

MayReasonRule

(3,850 posts)
33. There Are Technological Challenges, Nonetheless This Would Have A Profoundly Positive Impact Overall
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 11:18 AM
Sunday


Happy Sunday to ya, and here's to the return of reason's rule!!

Scrivener7

(57,301 posts)
35. I still don't get your issue. It's a matter of where the corporations incorporate, not where ads go.
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 11:22 AM
Sunday

MichMan

(16,000 posts)
41. If I understand you, if Illinois passed this law, any corporation from Illinois couldn't make political contributions
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 12:04 PM
Sunday

of any kind for any candidate or issue. Not just in Illinois, but in all the other 49 states as well. Yet corporations in other states (red) have no constraints.

Let's say the election in 2028 is between Pritzker and Vance. So, any corporations in Illinois are forbidden to contribute to his election, but corporations in red states can spend freely towards Vance. Does that sound like a good idea?



Scrivener7

(57,301 posts)
48. The vast majority of corporations are incorporated in Delaware. Delaware passes the law.
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 12:44 PM
Sunday

All those corporations are now restricted to whatever extent the law designates in the amount they can donate to political causes.

So no. Not any corporation in Illinois. Any corporation in Illinois that incorporated in Delaware, which will be the vast majority of them, can only contribute a finite amount to political entities.

The vast majority of the corporations operating in red states incorporated in Delaware too.

SickOfTheOnePct

(8,671 posts)
43. I get what MichMan is saying...
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 12:28 PM
Sunday

...and I'm wondering the same thing.

Just to make things easy, think about NC, GA, & TN and the little corner where they all meet.

Say GA allows corporations chartered in GA to spend money on political ads.

NC makes a law that says out-of-state corporations that operate in NC can't spend money on political ads; so the GA corps in NC can't spend money on political ads.

TN allows out-of-state corporations operating in TN to spend money on political ads; a corporation in TN makes such an ad, and people living in NC are able to see ads on their TV (or hear ads on the radio) that originate in GA or TN.

Has the corporation broken NC law?

Scrivener7

(57,301 posts)
50. No. It's not the state that's involved. It's the corporation. It's not the location of the ad that's restricted,
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 12:50 PM
Sunday

it's the corporation.

To make it simple, say 75% of corporations were incorporated in Delaware (which is probably not very far off.) That includes most of the corporations in red states and in blue states.

If Delaware passes the law, NONE of them can contribute more than a proscribed amount to political causes. It's not going to stop NC candidates from seeing ads made in Georgia. It's going to vastly reduce the amount Haliburton can contribute to the making of ads. So everyone will see fewer ads, regardless of where they are or whether the state they are aired in has passed the law or not.

ToxMarz

(2,567 posts)
25. Early in our history, corporations existed in a much more limited scope for a reason
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 10:47 AM
Sunday

Early corporations in the United States, which were modeled on British trading companies, were often chartered for a limited period, typically between 10 and 40 years. Unlike today's perpetual charters, these were temporary and required re-approval by the state legislature to continue existing

The purpose of time-limited charters

State legislatures in the early U.S. imposed expiration dates on corporate charters for specific public-interest reasons.

Preventing undue influence:
The state tightly controlled corporations to prevent them from amassing too much economic and political power. Lawmakers were wary of powerful, wealthy interests and built controls into the charter, including restrictions on capitalization and mandatory director rotations.

Limiting scope:
Early corporations were chartered to perform a specific public function, such as building a bridge or a canal. Once the purpose was achieved, the corporation was expected to terminate.

This has evolved into the exact opposite towards complete lack of regulation and "Corporations are people too..."

Everything always drifts to the extreme and once they get there, it's backers argue we're done and everyone should just get used to it. What's best is almost always somehwhere in between and ever changing, but that leads to the constant bickering and fighting (ie. democracy is messy debates) that is actually needed "in order to form a more perfect union".

Fiendish Thingy

(20,859 posts)
32. What's to stop the MAGA SCOTUS from declaring the rewritten state laws unconstitutional?
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 11:14 AM
Sunday

The court has ruled that money is speech, so any law restricting the use of corporate money would be considered a restriction on speech and therefore unconstitutional.

If I can think of that in just a few seconds, why hasn’t anyone else?

MayReasonRule

(3,850 posts)
36. States Grant Corporations Particular Powers And Without That Power Corporations Have No Rights To Contest
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 11:24 AM
Sunday
Here are the summary quotes that provide the basic context of the argument:
Justice Byron White's dissent 1986 SCOTUS Bowers v. Hardwick:
"The state need not let it's own creation consume it."

🔸 Corporate rights: ➪ Courts Protect
🔸 Corporate powers: ➪States Grant
=================================================

Here’s the move: Corporations are creatures of state law. They start with zero powers, and states choose which powers to grant. When a state rewrites its corporation laws to no longer grant the power to spend in politics, that power simply does not exist. And without the power, there’s no right to protect.

Happy Sunday y'all!


Fiendish Thingy

(20,859 posts)
37. Doesn't answer my question
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 11:31 AM
Sunday

SCOTUS has ruled money is speech; any law restricting corporate use of money could be ruled unconstitutional as a violation of the first amendment.

The fact that states grant corporations their powers doesn’t mean a state can remove constitutional protections.

It appears the proponents of the strategy in your OP haven’t thought this through, or even consulted a lawyer.

MayReasonRule

(3,850 posts)
38. Happy Sunday Again Y'all - I Really Appreciate Folks Like You That Desire To Dig Into The Heart Of The Matter
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 11:49 AM
Sunday
"Corporations are pure creatures of law; they do not exist without law and have zero powers until a government grants them some."


Though the Supreme Court did not use these exact terms, Citizens United centered on the ability of government to regulate the right of corporations to exercise powers of political speech that the state had granted them. When the court wrote,
“Citizens United is a nonprofit corporation,”25 it was a bit of shorthand. The long version is: Citizens United is a nonprofit corporation to which the Commonwealth of Virginia has granted the same powers as an individual to do all things necessary or convenient to carry out its business and affairs, among them (since Virginia law does not specify otherwise), the power to spend independently in candidate elections.


And because Citizens United was an entity to which Virginia had granted the power to spend in elections, the court found that Citizens United was an entity that had the right to spend in elections. Had Citizens United shown up in court as an entity to which Virginia had not given the power to spend in elections, the analysis would have to have been quite different.

A footnote in Citizens United itself underscores that the First Amendment comes into play only after a state chooses to grant corporations the power to engage in political spending. In his concurrence, Justice Scalia dismissed as irrelevant the dissent’s claim that the common law was generally interpreted as prohibiting corporate political spending: “Of course even if the common law was ‘generally interpreted’ to prohibit corporate political expenditures as ultra vires [beyond its authority and therefore void], that would have nothing to do with whether political expenditures that were authorized by a corporation’s charter could constitutionally be suppressed.”26 The necessary inverse is clear: When the state does withhold that power, it may treat any corporate political spending as unauthorized and void without triggering First Amendment scrutiny.

Think of it this way: Humans are born with the inherent power to live freely, pursue happiness, and shape their destiny. But they have not been granted the power to fly. Birds have, bats, pterodactyls—but not humans. It is useless to discuss whether humans have a right to fly, because without the power to do so, the right to do so has no meaning. Even if the Supreme Court decreed that humans had a constitutional right to fly, there is no amount of arm flapping that would result in humans taking to the skies, because they would still lack that ability. This lack of power to fly could not be held to infringe on the right to fly that the Supreme Court had recognized. It is simply an underlying reality that no court—not even the Supreme Court—can touch.

Likewise, when a state exercises its authority to define corporations as entities without the power to spend in politics, it will no longer be relevant to discuss whether the corporations have a right to spend in politics, because without the power to do so, the right to do so has no meaning.

Every scrap of corporate speech jurisprudence centers on rights and the authority of government to regulate them—and courts have consistently held that authority to be sharply circumscribed. The jurisprudence regarding states’ authority to grant powers to the corporations they create is entirely separate, and for more than a century, courts have consistently held that power-granting authority to be all but absolute.



Fiendish Thingy

(20,859 posts)
40. Thank you for the deep dive, but this begs the question:
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 11:55 AM
Sunday

Why wasn’t this strategy attempted immediately after the Citizens United ruling?

It raises more questions than it answers.

MayReasonRule

(3,850 posts)
45. No Doubt That There Are Officers Of The Court Within This Forum That Might Provide Greater Insight...
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 12:35 PM
Sunday

The Full Report regarding the full initiative and current test case is a great read that perchance might provide further insights outside of the generally 'known known' reasons.

I've not read the entire report as of yet, although I am making my way through it.

I'd love to hear back from you regarding what further perspectives you may gain as you continue to research the matter!

I'm back out to gardening...

Putting out more Japanese Black Trifele Tomatoes, Banana Leg Tomatoes, Sugar Rush Peach Peppers, Cauliflower, and Green Dragon Cucumbers today.

If I end up with enough time I'll sow some Purple Top White Globe Turnips and Broadleaf Mustard Greens after I pick the current round of Top Pick Pink Eye Mississippi Purple Hull Peas, Crimson Okra and Clemson Spineless Okra.

Our roo dog always helps!!

MayReasonRule

(3,850 posts)
47. Here Ya' Go...
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 12:39 PM
Sunday
"Corporations are pure creatures of law; they do not exist without law and have zero powers until a government grants them some."


Though the Supreme Court did not use these exact terms, Citizens United centered on the ability of government to regulate the right of corporations to exercise powers of political speech that the state had granted them. When the court wrote,
“Citizens United is a nonprofit corporation,”25 it was a bit of shorthand. The long version is: Citizens United is a nonprofit corporation to which the Commonwealth of Virginia has granted the same powers as an individual to do all things necessary or convenient to carry out its business and affairs, among them (since Virginia law does not specify otherwise), the power to spend independently in candidate elections.


And because Citizens United was an entity to which Virginia had granted the power to spend in elections, the court found that Citizens United was an entity that had the right to spend in elections. Had Citizens United shown up in court as an entity to which Virginia had not given the power to spend in elections, the analysis would have to have been quite different.

A footnote in Citizens United itself underscores that the First Amendment comes into play only after a state chooses to grant corporations the power to engage in political spending. In his concurrence, Justice Scalia dismissed as irrelevant the dissent’s claim that the common law was generally interpreted as prohibiting corporate political spending: “Of course even if the common law was ‘generally interpreted’ to prohibit corporate political expenditures as ultra vires [beyond its authority and therefore void], that would have nothing to do with whether political expenditures that were authorized by a corporation’s charter could constitutionally be suppressed.”26 The necessary inverse is clear: When the state does withhold that power, it may treat any corporate political spending as unauthorized and void without triggering First Amendment scrutiny.

Think of it this way: Humans are born with the inherent power to live freely, pursue happiness, and shape their destiny. But they have not been granted the power to fly. Birds have, bats, pterodactyls—but not humans. It is useless to discuss whether humans have a right to fly, because without the power to do so, the right to do so has no meaning. Even if the Supreme Court decreed that humans had a constitutional right to fly, there is no amount of arm flapping that would result in humans taking to the skies, because they would still lack that ability. This lack of power to fly could not be held to infringe on the right to fly that the Supreme Court had recognized. It is simply an underlying reality that no court—not even the Supreme Court—can touch.

Likewise, when a state exercises its authority to define corporations as entities without the power to spend in politics, it will no longer be relevant to discuss whether the corporations have a right to spend in politics, because without the power to do so, the right to do so has no meaning.

Every scrap of corporate speech jurisprudence centers on rights and the authority of government to regulate them—and courts have consistently held that authority to be sharply circumscribed. The jurisprudence regarding states’ authority to grant powers to the corporations they create is entirely separate, and for more than a century, courts have consistently held that power-granting authority to be all but absolute.



cksmithy

(398 posts)
58. Thanks for the post.
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 03:00 PM
Sunday

I am reading the full report from the website, almost done. Very interesting and hopefully it is something we can actually accomplish.

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