They carried it out anyway. Fuck any of them that followed the order. That's not honor that's cowardice.

are illegal orders.

People that volunteered. They have no loyalty except to themselves. Sorry to have to say this

I'm not sure if what they did was legal or not, but getting a letter from a CO if you knowingly followed an illegal order is laughable.

responsibility on the grounds that one was "just following orders." That phrase is a trope for a reason. Any such letter wouldn't be worth a damn when the chips are down. But the chips won't ever be down.

What IS going to protect all those military personnel is the simple fact that the US will never hold anyone accountable for those murders, nor allow any international entity do so without using every tool available to counter them. It doesn't matter which party controls what part of the government, the non-consequences are consistent.

They already murdered people in a boat in NK. Nothing was said.

William Laws Calley Jr. (June 8, 1943 – April 28, 2024) was a United States Army officer convicted by court-martial of the murder of 22 unarmed South Vietnamese civilians in the My Lai massacre on March 16, 1968, during the Vietnam War. Calley was released to house arrest under orders by President Richard Nixon three days after his conviction. The United States District Court for the Middle District of Georgia granted him a new trial, but that ruling was overturned by the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit. His initial life sentence having been modified to a term of 20 years and then further reduced to ten, Calley ultimately served three years of house arrest for the murders.
Or Jacob Smith:
"'I want no prisoners. I wish you to kill and burn, the more you kill and burn the better it will please me. I want all persons killed who are capable of bearing arms in actual hostilities against the United States,' General Jacob H. Smith said.

Since it was a popular belief among the Americans serving in the Philippines that native males were born with bolos in their hands, Major Littleton "Tony" Waller asked, "I would like to know the limit of age to respect, sir."

"Ten years", Smith said.

"Persons of ten years and older are those designated as being capable of bearing arms?"

"Yes." Smith confirmed his instructions a second time."
In May 1902, Smith faced a court-martial for his orders, being tried not for murder or other war crimes, but for "conduct to the prejudice of good order and military discipline". The court-martial found Smith guilty and sentenced him "to be admonished by the reviewing authority."[31]

To ease the subsequent public outcry in America, Secretary of War Elihu Root recommended that Smith be retired. President Roosevelt accepted this recommendation, and ordered Smith's retirement from the Army, with no additional punishment.

Guy I served with in Vietnam has a son who is a very senior (name of military service omitted) officer with several stars. He tells me that his son and "a lot" of colonels/captains, 1-, 2-, 3-, and 4-stars are NOT HAPPY about a these killings and a LOT more of the Trump-Hegseth bullshit. They universally have no respect for Hegseth and consider the "Dept of War" to be a bad, stupid, not funny joke.

Will there be a "night of the long knives" in reverse in the US? Probably not, but we have never before lived in times like these.

And he wants it to take complete control, which pays his debt to Putin.

But, having served, I understand the oath. He does not understand honor and courage. Not one bit.

There will be a "Petrov" moment.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220295160 may 2025

Stars on your shoulder boards. The long hard slog. The work, the politics, the deployments, uprooting your family every couple of years. And then, after all you've achieved, being subordinate to a 2nd rate, weekend talking head from Fux News. The guy didn't even rate weekdays much less prime time on the lying network. He spent a few Nat. Guard years far, far in the rear with the gear. And I
have to obey this grossly unqualified, moronic mother fucker?!! Oh, hell no!!!

It's and unimaginable insult.

Who benefits and how.

got their punishment reduced. It did no exonerate them.

"Following orders" could be considered a mitigating factor. Consideration of mitigating factors is common for sentencing criminals.

For example: If the soldier was going to get shot in the back for not following orders to commit a (war) crime, then that would be regarded as a mitigating factor to reduce the sentence. It did not exonerate them of the (war) crime but those mitigating circumstances would reduce the sentence vs those who did not have mitigating circumstances and committed the same (war) crime. I think most people get that. That reasoning got applied at Nuremberg.

For "Hoess & Eichmann" "following orders" would probably fail because they could have gotten away or done something else to reduce the carnage but they did not.

Those following Trump's orders to kill those on boats from Venezuela probably would wind up closer to "Hoess & Eichmann" in terms of guilt of the crime though many people seem to fear Trump and they may have some sort of mens rea argument - brainwashed into believing in Trump.

they're being judged by a post-Trump non-MAGA tribunal. And, even if we're fortunate enough to get there, there will still be the same rigged kangaroo Supreme Court.

Literally every drone strike is murder or attempted murder

I am convinced Trump wants wars. Too many live for the opportunity thinking the USA is invincible.

I think what is in dumbass's mind is that titillating amendment in the Ukrainian Constitution about no elections during wartime. He thinks he can just sign that amendment into law here in the US with an EO. He looks at EOs as edicts. Anyway, he thinks he can sign that into law after he gets us in a war. All this to thwart the 2026 midterm elections.

My post is aligned with what you project just not as detailed.

What is bad is that Trump is the face of a movement that will cut him to the quick when he is no longer useful, while clever he is also dense. He is emulating and competing with Putin and Netanyahu. Troubling.

I think I was just disagreeing with why he is so anxious to get us into a war.

"Flooding the zone with shit" with illegal authoritarian actions on every conceivable front. There's so many of them that it's harder for people to single out individual ones and it also may be intended to make people more intimidated and capitulate more easily.

A letter to stay out of jail?
A letter to help you sleep at night?
A letter so you can look in the mirror?
A letter for when you salute the flag?
A letter so you can answer your kids when they ask 'What did you do in the war, Daddy/Mommy?"

I did almost 21 years in the military and these cowards make me sick...and the worst are the senior leaders.

Well said, and I'm still wondering even ONE miltary/vet supports Cadet Bonespurs.

We’re coming for you as well as everyone in your command structure for crimes against humanity.

You dishonored your oath and country and asked for a letter?

Get used to living in a 6 foot cell.

when a criminal and psychopath is given complete authority to do whatever the fuck he wants?

Only, the blood (and CULPABILITY) is not only upon his hands, but also the hands of all who empower him.

Then what will they do?

To anyone who has been in the U.S. military:

How would a person refuse?

Can you just resign?

What would be the procedure when given these orders?

Uniform Code of Military Justice. The rules when you're in uniform. The key words are manifestly unlawful orders. Anyone would ordinarily know it's unlawful. Sounds simple but it's not. Situations are usually complicated. And this regime skirts just beyond the law. Whether it's unlawful or not is up to a court martial to decide. Unless it's really clear cut, there's risk involved to the service member disobeying.

are the ones who gave the orders in the first place.

trying to remember if "lawful orders" were described/defined in the "Bluejacket's Manual". I should think that they were.

Although if it hasn't happened by now the hope is pretty dim.

American military?

He’s the criminal along with Hegseth who fired a bunch of the guys who give commanders guidance on what is legal and what is not.

The ones that could charge them are the ones that gave the orders..

There are legions of bad actors ready and willing to fill the gap. Most of more evil, cunning, and smarter.

As a 28-year AF veteran, I'm familiar with the military chain of command and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Commanders are limited on the legal actions they can take on their personnel. They do not have the authority to absolve anyone before or after and action has taken place. If military personnel carry out an order, regardless of being a legal or illegal order, the person issuing the order and the person(s) following the order are held responsible for their action.

It is not up to the commander to decide on whether the order is illegal but up to the military justice system. Prior to indicting anyone, an Article 32 investigation is held to determine if there sufficient evidence to charge an individual or individuals. If charges are recommended, then the person(s) involved will face a court martial. A military court martial is not a slam dunk for the prosecution. The prosecution has to prove the charges against the individual(s) to a court martial panel (jury) just like a district attorney has to prove the charges against a defendant in a civilian trial. If the individual(s) is found guilty, the case is automatically appeal to the United States Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces.

In short, the commander cannot absolve anyone of obey an illegal order.

And the rank and file are fully aware.

because although it looks like all 3 boats hit have been up to no good, a mistake is going to happen sooner or later and it is going to be a bad one when it does.

Right now they look like the kuid of boats that take shit from the shore out to freighters or fishing boats for distribution worldwide, which means most likely coke.

But that's not what this is about, protecting the world from the demon cocaine. It's about removing a source of revenue from Maduro in an attempt to keep him from getting even more tucked up in bed with China.

Good luck with that.

be the theme of the new nazi regime.