US GI's were fighting fascism for the USA.

Antifa was a individual group that the US was ideologically opposite of

Thank you!

The Fascism description fits today's situation to a T. The remarks on the Soviet Union were very conciliatory, I guess because that alliance was so crucial in fighting Fascism.

I'm using AI for this, so Im being lazy


Antifa is a decentralized, far-left movement that includes communists, but it is not accurate to describe the entire movement as communist. The movement is composed of autonomous groups and individuals who subscribe to a range of left-wing ideologies, which also include anarchism and socialism. Its core unifying element is opposition to what its members view as fascism, racism, and other forms of oppression.

Yours is the modern, US based definition. Theirs is the historic one. Since the people being discussed are the historic ones, makes more sense to apply the definition that applied at the time they were taking their actions, i.e. WWII. US soldiers in that war were never "antifa". They were, however, at war with fascists. So that's the far better description.

They said this-'Antifa has always been a Communist front organization... from it's early days when it was supported by Stalin and Beria... to today.'

To today

You did not explain your point, you just blurted out "wrong" then gave an AI definition of what the word means currently.

The overall point WarGamer is making is correct.

The 'one word' is his attempt to discredit what people are doing today by associating it with the past, based on a few people using a flag. There's no connection, since there is no unified group or sponser behind antifa's actions

The ADL states that "[m]ost antifa come from the anarchist movement or from the far left, though since the 2016 presidential election, some people with more mainstream political backgrounds have also joined their ranks."

He's simply parroting right-wing takes on antifa. This is bullshit

But WG's overall point seems to be that US GI's in the 40's were not "Antifa". Which is why the OP title is what it is. And that point is correct.

But you blurted out "wrong" without seeming to have "gotten" that point.

Which you still seem to not be, but whatever. We're all on the same side

Are people that clueless how to communicate online? and to younger people?

People hear 'antifa' they are not thinking of antifaschistische aktion, but the contemporary people putting their bodies on the line fighting literal neo nazis in the streets.

And, again, the poster was exactly parroting right wingers.

If that's what you trying to portray, show grey haired, clean cut Americans protesting against Neo Nazi's with American flags. Yes, they are anti-fascist.

If the military is anti-fascist, why didn't we invade Spain and why did we allow Spain to remain fascist until 1975?

We fought in WWII to save the UK.

We treated Jews pretty shitty and turned them away from the US to be sent to concentration camps. We enabled their deaths.
How is that anti-fascist?

He's saying GIs are being besmirched by association with antifa. You appear to be saying antifa is besmirched by association with GIs.

Anyway, it's a meme, and an effective one. That's how communication is done these days for younger people. You're not the target audience (I'm making presumptions about your age)

edited: I'll add that the POINT is that at one time direct action was used against nazis by our ancestors, so one shouldn't look askance at people using direct action against nazis in the street.

I'm done arguing on their behalf.

Next time, maybe don't be that "lazy" (by your own admission ) and others won't mistake the point you're trying to make

Which is simply wrong

That's why I mentioned it from the jump.

I'm done on this one, friend.

To differentiate the WW2 version from the modern version... much in the way we differentiate the Nazis from neo-nazis.

Your claim that antifa is an organized communist front group was completely debunked

Modern Antifa draws inspiration from 1930's Antifa... Antifaschistische Aktion

They use the same logos, carry banners, print it on t-shirts and such things... just like neo-nazis do the same.

Neo-nazis aren't organized either... it's loose groups drawing inspiration from older historical entities.

People who went to antifa 'events' included anarchists, socialists, and mainstream political views (I sourced this). A few flags means nothing.

Neonazi 'events' include nazis....and that's it. Their inspiration is a wish for a 5th reich.

Your words exist, and can be read.

The poster to whom you are responding said, "Your claim that antifa is an organized communist front group was completely debunked"

You now say, "Fortunately I never claimed that."

In your OP, actual words: "Antifa has always been a Communist front organization... from it's early days when it was supported by Stalin and Beria... to today."

So what was it you never claimed? Certainly not that antifa is an organized communist front group.

I mean, those are your words. Right there. In quotation marks.

I eagerly await your diversion!

Without trying to make the case that FDR and Churchill were just as evil as Hitler was as they have done in other posts on the subject.

That more modern-looking pic, any idea where/when that was taken?

Statehouse.

Any idea what year?

My father served in the military during World War II. He passed away decades ago, and he was most certainly anti-fascist. As was my grandfather who served in World War I. I have a great uncle who served with an ally's army, and a great aunt who stayed behind in occupied Europe and is one of the Righteous Among the Nations. All anti-fascist.

Also, Antifa is not an organization. It is an idea.

ANTIFA in ww2 had an actual historical meaning... comrade.

Not just posting snark on forums.

In reality, beyond arm chair quarterbacking.Good thing thing too. But here we are again. Woke as a bad word is sh*t spin. Antifa as a bad word is sh*t spin

...or higher wages, more housing, cheaper utility bills etc

You're not wrong. But the right has turned history on its head, and perfected the art of hyperbolic pejoratives

Yes, historically, it had a real identity that didn't mean the same thing, but the US military was the most powerful military force fighting fascism during WWII. We didn't use the word, "antifa" in our historical description of the US military. You are correct there. However that word has lost its original meaning at this point.

Did "grandpa" fight fascism? Or even "Dad" as in my case. My father was a B-17 pilot near the end of WWII. He would have explained fighting fascism to you very clearly and directly, I guarantee. He wouldn't have used the word Antifa, though, as you suggest.

The reality, though, was that it was a fight against Fascism at the time. We won that fight. Let's not let nomenclature cloud the issue.

He wasn't fighting fascism. He was fighting Germany, which was trying to destroy our allies and had declared war on us.

Spain was fascist, but we didn't fight Spain. We exited WWII and Spain remained fascist until 1975.

If the US was truly anti-fascist, we would have allowed European Jews to seek refuge in the US. However, we forced them to stay in Europe where they were being sent to concentration camps.

Anne Frank died because her family was not allowed to immigrate to the US.

If you asked my father about fighting fascism, he would make it very clear that he was doing exactly that. He can't do that, though, since he died in 2021. So, I'm doing it for him. I have said what I meant to say, and pretty clearly, I think. If you think officers in the USAAF did not know what fascism was, I can assure you that they did. Not in a precise discussion of the nomenclature, but in the sense of a deep understanding of it. He' would have been happy to clarify that for you. Sadly, he can no longer do that.

Last edited Fri Sep 19, 2025, 03:04 PM - Edit history (2)

as an advisor in the early 60's and then 66-67 flew cargo in Vietnam.

Yes, military intelligence was probably part of his later career, especially when he was an advisor in Vietnam, but I wasn't around when he was doing his Korea thing.

Looks like they spent alot time in the snow up there! For my dad, the AF was a way to escape home. He got into OTS and air cadet school. My dad's class was in a movie and Gus Grissom was in his air cadet class.

And it looked like with the younger guys (like him) the focus was on flight skills. In flight school it was the fighter guys versus the large planes. The fighter guys were the "macho" and "dare devils" according to my dad. My dad went with the large planes.

I got the impression that during Korea, he was truly focused on flying his B29, completing his missions accurately and wasn't too concerned with the North Korean ideology. (I'm sure he learned something about it, but the focus was always on the skill for pilots) It was a job for him. Safety, skills and accuracy.

When he came back to the states, they sent him to college and gave him a choice: Meteorology or cartography. He chose meteorology and he was the base meteorologist when we were little kids. He was very focused on his skills and brought home tons of scrapped maps every night. Us kids had an endless supply of paper to color on. He was a super fun dad and easy going.

My dad got more political as time went on. After he came back from Vietnam in 1967 he had an "attitude".

The US fought Germany, but I wouldn't consider the US military to be "antifascist" as much as we were trying to save our ally, Great Britain from destruction. and because Germany declared war on the United States

Much of the war efforts were to curtail attacks on Great Britain and destroy Germany's military technical advantages that it had over the British.

If we hadn't entered WWII England would have been destroyed.

Sadly, the US did not fight Germany to save Jews from concentration camps.


Freeing Jews from concentration camps happened at the end and the US only became concerned about their welfare towards the end of the war. (1944)

For years, the US knew what was happening to Jews and did nothing.

The US knew about an ongoing genocide and did nothing!!!!

If the US was truly anti-fascist, it would not have forced Jewish immigrants to return to the Nazi controlled areas.

The US refused to allow Jews to escape the Nazis and enter the US!
It would not even allow UK Jews to immigrate!


The Frank family tried to immigrate to the US and they were denied!

Anne Frank died because the US was not anti-fascist!!!


The US did not fight an ideology in WWII. We fought countries that were our enemies and destructive to the United States and our allies.

Fascism still existed in parts of the world after WWII. The US did not gather troops to save people from fascist regimes. Fascist regimes still exist all over the world and we do not go in and try to "save everyone" just because their country is run by a dictator.

The US military has never been 'anti-fascist".

If Germany had not been fascist and they still waged war on the US and Great Britain, we would have fought Germany. We fought them in WWI also.


If find equating what happened in WWII with antifa or "antifascism" does not do justice to true antifascists and the military!!!! It distorts facts and history.

Democrat can mean one who supports the Democratic Party or it can mean one who supports Democracy.

The Democratic Party of the 1860’s was anything but “democratic.” But, back then one could support democracy and yet oppose the Democratic Party or vice versa.

Similar case here. There is antifa the ideology and antifa the communist political party of 1930’s Germany.

That said, there was also another third organization that was anti-fascist and anti-communist in 1930’s Germany:

The Iron Front

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Front

This was a paramilitary faction of the German Social Democrats. It is often lumped in by some with Antifa today but was historically the Enemy of the German Antifa action faction.




Founder of the Iron Front


https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/lk5Vh9mq5O

Lost an Arm, spent a decade in a concentration camp, still fought Nazis and communists.

Your historical background is interesting, but you lost me when you define today's Antifa as a communist front.

The folks I know who call themselves antifa (admittedly a small group; I don't get out much) belong to a wide range of other organizations (DSA, Sunshine Coalition, and yes, various communist organizations, as well as anarchists, etc.) but afaik there are no chapter meetings of antifa, no dues, no minutes.

I think that Antifa is an identity rather than an organization today.

That's not to say that there aren't groups around the world who might meet and call themselves Antifa and have secret handshakes. People form clubs all the time.

I've read countless times that Antifa, in the modern era, doesn't exisit. Settled fact. It's right-wing fantasy boogyman, or possibly misguided kids, or a false flag op, or somthing bogus. If it doesn't exist, then this is just us arguing with us over nothing. Seems counter productive.

I do appreciate all the historical links, though. I learned some stuff and find it truly fascinating. WWII constantly comes up with new angles I never knew existed.

making this a false extrapolation to, according to them, that the Democratic Party is a false identity because this is a "republic" so the Republican Party is the true identity of the country. I've answered comments like that by telling them that the FORMS OF GOVERNMENT (republic, democracy) have nothing to do with the names of the parties beyond reflecting ideals.

*** I learned from the OP about the specialized history, but submit that in the current rhetorical propanda world, the MAGAts are totally ignorant of the history and are using the label as a mere shorthand slur. Same as when I encountered somebody new to politics who claimed that the Democratic Party was extremist and committing bombings and such. I was caught off guard and this mystification gnawed at me until the next encounter when I demanded to know what he was basing this on. He replied that it was from news accounts of Environmentalists perpetrating acts of defacing things and even more acts of violence in protests. I was relieved and told him that stewardship of the environment is certainly a part of the Democratic agenda but that the very specialized, one-issue activism to the point of violence is not usually representative of the whole party.

I submit that the MAGAt use of "antifa" is not the intelligent use, just a shorthand insult, like all of their pre-teen/KRASNOV insults. Further, I think that we ourselves are "anti-Fascist" in the context of KRASNOV's tendencies.

I guess they should poll Republicans

FAKE POLL OF REPUBLICANS
Do you support fascism: NO 98% YES 2%
Do you support antifa: NO 100% YES 0%
Do you consider Don Trump to be fascist: NO 98% YES 2%
Do consider antifa to be a terrorist group: NO 40% YES 60%

I seriously think this is what poll results would look like if they were polled.

Lighten up, Francis. "Grandpa" (my uncle, in my case) fought fascists, was anti-fascist, and his government was allied with Stalin and his "Antifa" people. They didn't fight Communists.

It's the military. The military is not an anti-fascist organization. It's not an anti-communist organization. It's not an anti-Islamic organization. Almost 1/2 of troops deployed, fought Japanese in WWII, which was an aggressor against the United States, I know they had a dictatorship, but I don't think they were fascist. The Japanese are the reason the US entered WWII.


The major military leaders in the Vietnam War fought in all three wars.

From President Truman. Updated after renaming the Department of War to the Department of Defense


BY VIRTUE of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, and as President of the United States and Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, I hereby prescribe the following assignment of primary functions and responsibilities to the three armed services.

Section I--The Common Missions of the Armed Forces of the United States are:

1. To support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic.

2. To maintain, by timely and effective military action, the security of the United States, its possessions and areas vital to its interest.

3. To uphold and advance the national policies and interests of the United States.

4. To safeguard the internal security of the United States as directed by higher authority.

5. To conduct integrated operations on the land, on the sea, and in the air necessary for these purposes.

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/executive-order-9877-functions-the-armed-forces

Last edited Fri Sep 19, 2025, 10:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Last edited Sat Sep 20, 2025, 05:50 AM - Edit history (2)

On edit I’m glad you were shamed into deleting that pant load.

Things change.

ántifa. As in ANTI = AGAINST. fa is short for fascism. You misunderstand the history of antifa.
We went over this term during the felon's first term.

We say the word ANtifa, or antiFA ------- not anTIfa.
EMphasis on the first syllable, or even on the last , BUT NOT not on the middle syllable.

Counterrevolutionary anti-fascism, also known as conservative and liberal anti-fascism, refers to the opposition to fascism grounded in the defense of democracy, constitutional order, and traditional institutions. Unlike revolutionary anti-fascism, which aims for social and political transformation, counterrevolutionary anti-fascism is focused on preserving or restoring pre-war political systems, such as constitutional monarchies and republics based on Enlightenment ideals.[17][18][19][20]

This form of anti-fascism is often associated with prominent figures such as Franklin D. Roosevelt, Winston Churchill and Charles de Gaulle, who opposed fascist authoritarianism while also resisting revolutionary movements that sought to radically change society.[18][21] It was supported by a broad coalition of groups, including capitalists, trade unionists, social democrats, and traditionalists, all of whom united in their opposition to fascism and their support for political stability.[18][19][21]

Counterrevolutionary anti-fascism sought to challenge fascist ideologies and movements, aiming to preserve existing democratic structures and stabilize society. It focused on reinforcing confidence in democratic governance and addressing extremist movements, setting itself apart from revolutionary anti-fascism, which frequently aimed at challenging capitalist systems.[18][19]

During the Spanish civil war against Franco...Thousands of people from many countries went to Spain in support of the anti-fascist cause, joining units such as the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, the British Battalion, the Dabrowski Battalion, the Mackenzie-Papineau Battalion, the Naftali Botwin Company and the Thälmann Battalion, including Winston Churchill's nephew, Esmond Romilly.[65] Notable anti-fascists who worked internationally against Franco included: George Orwell (who fought in the POUM militia and wrote Homage to Catalonia about his experience), Ernest Hemingway (a supporter of the International Brigades who wrote For Whom the Bell Tolls about his experience), and the radical journalist Martha Gellhorn.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

You define antifa the way the Nazi right wing does in this country. Know why antifa got shit back in trump's first term? Because they had success against white supremacy hate groups! Politico and establishment media have been too lazy to bother with anti-fascist history.

"Anarchist extremists" are usually police infiltrators and their provocateurs paid to justify police beatdowns of otherwise peaceful protestors with right on their side.

U.S. DEFENDERS (antifa) will be framed as the bad guys, as they were in Germany, Italy, Spain and Wall Street, you idiot.

The state can't have the working class organizing for their own self-defense because eventually everyone will understand who ELSE is the enemy alongside the fascists. And who abets the fascists.

Remember the assassinations of the 1960s/70s. Remember them. Same modus operandi from the state.


So don't get the concept or reality of antifa twisted. All the big photos here won't change antifa history.
Don't present the German version of antifa as the last word on what antifa really, truly is worldwide.

I posted about antifa 5 years ago on DU. In it was the only written response by antifa in the U.S. in its history.
At the time the post got over 4,000 views. If I were you, I'd define someone by how they define themselves and their actions. Not by how Germany defined them. And they certainly are NOT now nor were ever a communist front. Not at all.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213527954


Ultimately, the fascists are part of the defense of the capitalist state AGAINST the working class. Those two are on the same side and it is NOT on the side of the masses. Antifa is the masses. We are all antifa.

I said it then and I'll say it again: there's never been anything to fear about antifa. Western European countries give thanks to antifa for their very existence. I'm glad they're around, and will never let anyone tell me who they are and where. They're everywhere.

Your whole post has antifa all twisted.
And YES, grandpa was antifa.

I appreciate you, WarGamer but you need to read this damn book.

I laid out the complete history.

It's impeccable.

Modern day antifa is to Antifaschistische Aktion as Neo-Nazis are to the NSDAP.

You absolutely did not lay out the complete history. It's the version you want, but it's not complete.

You weren't here five years ago, so you don't know the long and short of the antifa discussions. Not your fault, of course, but you must have noticed that you're getting some pushback across your thread, right? There's a reason for that, and I'm not it.

I myself have made a number of effort posts and have been shown to be completely wrong. So I understand. Sometimes I've just deleted my OP. Sometimes I leave them up to remind myself and others that we're just human.

In the 1930's there is zero ambiguity, that's exactly what they were.

We can argue about the 50's-20's... but their origin story is pure Stalin.

Same here.

But because the truth is sometimes unpopular and a fantastic version of things are more easily accepted.