No ICE agent would ever claim to have a warrant

like Bounty Hunters that had the wrong address.......(or maybe even the right address) The Bounty hunters tactics are not a lot different than were displayed by these two victims.......Then again Bounty hunters don't actually (legally) carry firearms, or not allowed by law.....
Of course it was TEXAS and every man woman and child over the age of 12 probably carries a side arm legally down there.....

I gotta tell you.......Not only are the Republicans taking us back to the "Gilded Age" with "Robber Barrons" they are taking us back to the "Wild Wild West"

The “Old West” conjures up all sorts of imagery, but broadly, the term is used to evoke life among the crusty prospectors, threadbare gold panners, madams of brothels, and six-shooter-packing cowboys in small frontier towns – such as Tombstone, Deadwood, Dodge City, or Abilene, to name a few. One other thing these cities had in common: strict gun control laws.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/gun-control-old-west-180968013/

with the Earp brothers representing the law against the Clanton gang,
was provoked by the Earp's attempt to enforce Tombstone's
prohibition against carrying guns in town....

The old "wild west" had a lot more sense about gun control
than the Republicans of 2025....



(I think the problem might be that the Republicans haven't not had enough illegal guns pointed at them....
They all live in the 'good neighborhoods'... ?)

requiring firearms and knives to be turned in while in the town limits, but that wasn't the reason for the gunfight. The Clantons (distant relatives of mine on my mom's side), who were horse thieves and cattle rustlers, among other things, had a long-standing feud with the three Earp brothersand Doc Holliday (who was no angel himself).

The night before the gunfight, Billy Clanton and Holliday had a heated public argument (which almost resulted in Holliday being jailed by U.S. Marshall Virgil Earp) over something Holliday had been told Billy had said about killing Holliday. The gunfight sprang from that, as well as from the feud.

if they were carrying guns outside of the corral on town streets (which had been repeatedly reported)
was the 'legal reason' for which they made their way towards the back-side of the OK Corral which exited
into the vacant lot between the Fly's photographic studio and the boarding-house where Doc lived,
where the confrontation and gunfight actually took place.

Several eyewitnesses reported that Virgil Earp ordered them to throw up their hands,
that he intended to disarm them.... but they moved to draw their weapons and fire instead,
which several of the Earp party also did almost simultaneously.

(Other eye-witnesses, notably County Sheriff Behan, who was friendly with the outlaws,
made contradictory testimony, but it seems they were lying.)

The immediate reason for the gunfight was the Earp's intent to disarm the Clantons & co.,
thereby enforcing the town's gun control ordinance--

but YES, the previous hostility between the two factions did much to cause the deadly results.


Virgil Earp was acting town Marshall in Tombstone, not a U.S. Marshall.

Wyatt Earp was a Deputy U.S. Marshall with jurisdiction over a large portion of Arizona
of which Tombstone was a part, although not Tombstone in particular.

(I've read numerous books about this gunfight, being one of my favorite historical topics--
and was lucky enough to be able to visit the actual site on one of my visits to Arizona!)

for a bit but now back.

I've never been around guns. Except my dad's .22 that he used to kill rattlesnakes at the Ranch when I was a kid... and I learned how to shoot a bb gun as a kid.

But I'm thinking I might sign up for a class and get one. being a single woman alone in the forest, it might be a good idea of the Zombies/'MAGAts come for us...

They were eaten by zombies and for some...worms!

Maybe they should start acting like professionals instead. You know, remove the masks and show their paperwork and not tackle innocent people or snatch up kids off the street and load them into unmarked vans.

The "thugly" behavior has to end, otherwise ICE agents will become targets everywhere.

It sure sounds like these particular masked men were not employed ICE agents. The government needs to clarify immediately.

Blast away!!

It should be obvious at this late stage, that's going to be what it takes to end this.

What will happen to the homeowners? Remains to be seen, but the two "cops" are deceased. Clearly, people are getting the message that shouting that you have a warrant is no guarantee that the shouters are actual LEOs. So, what do you do if this happens and you are in your home? That is a question that is going to be asked more and more frequently when masked men with no clear identity as LEOS demand entry.

People are going to have to think about such situations and decide how they will react if a similar thing happens to them. Armed people are more likely to decide to defend their premises when no evidence of authority is presented. What will the courts say? Well, in the past, they have said that homeowners in such situations are justified in defending their homes if there is no clear identity of authority presented. You can't just yell and break down the door. If you do, in many states, you're likely to die.

It's call 'no knock' - and LE (of numerous stripe) have been employing it in this fine country for quite some time.

In that this does not seem to be what occurred here

We will find out, of course, eventually.

My point, though, is that amateur "cops" like those that are running around with masks on and abusing their authority need to think longer about what they're doing, particularly if it involves people in their homes. Not everyone is just going to go along with your "raid."

the court’s could and should side with homeowner. I’m sure we shall see. What an unnecessary and ignorant mess.

'Justice' is a quaint afterthought. It depends on the hue of the person's skin.

Shucks, pal. Looks like you made an honest mistake. All charges dismissed.

Or "String him up!"

Last edited Sat Aug 23, 2025, 08:13 PM - Edit history (1)

During the Floyd riots here in Minnesota, for example.

https://minnesotareformer.com/2022/05/17/minneapolis-to-pay-1-5-million-to-settle-jaleel-stallings-lawsuit/

Dude got shot at on the street with rubber bullets by police in an unmarked van and returned fire with a legally owned AK47 pistol variant he was carrying for self defense. Not guilty and got paid $1.5 million.

on the video said that the two deceased persons shot through the door first, causing the homeowner to return fire through the door, killing them.

If the two were standing in the curtilage of the home, they needed a warrant to be there. There was no warrant mentioned in the press conference.

What cop shoots through a door without first being fired on? Strange stuff.

Now I need to use it three times in order to own it.

The door to door salesman was encroaching the curtilage to my home, so I let my dog out.
Hey! I got a red line under "curtilage" Spell correct needs to learn a new word too.

rather than a claim of a warrant, or whether they showed anything they thought looked like a warrant.

Remember NRA's mantra: "An armed society is a polite society."

The time for politely answering the door when “law enforcement” knocks is no longer a safe option for most of us. (To be honest, for many people in this country, it was never safe, but that’s a discussion for another time.)

Normally, there are flashing lights on vehicles and no masks on the LEOs. That seems to have changed, which opens the door to non-LEOs pretenting to be LEOs and busting down doors. That's why this won't be the last time this happens.

After watching ICE's bully goons running wild, a lot of jurors will begin to see it as a justifiable act of self defense.

They should be. However, since the judicial system is so pro-law enforcement, I think they’ll side the ICE thugs even if they’re masked and not showing ID.

IT’s a damned if you shoot them, and damned if you don’t shoot them.

This is what the fascists want: fear and confusion.

required for most convictions, are not a part of the system in the sense of feeling like partners to law enforcement and therefore being pro-them. That could make a difference.

might force a favorable outcome for the goons.

Take it to the bank.

There shouldn't be any ramifications if these two were impersonating police officers with the intent to rob the homeowner. There should be a commendation for effective self defense.

If so, good shoot, and no bill from me if I were on the grand jury.

just as they’ve inspired racists to mask up and dress in tactical gear to harass and assault people of color. There’ll be more of this as Trump and his thugs continue to model and validate brutality.

Rec

With their masks.

Homeowners should start telling these goons to show their badges. Or is that illegal now?

Most states have stand your ground laws anymore.

who they truly *are*.

I hope they were two of icebarbie's goons!

How long until Dear Leader Trump takes away everybody’s guns??

The regime will have to take aways guns. But I think the regime will use the voters records they are desperately trying to get. Anyone who voted against Krasnov will have their weapons taken away first. Next will be the magas, as soon as it becomes apparent that they woke up and see the damage.

RELEASE THE EPSTEIN FILES NOW

Homeowner could kill them with knives, bat, golf club…

To be sure, a gun is much more efficient, but a knife or sword can do a similar death blow without any errant damage to neighbors.

but it would not have been as effective.

I do agree that any gunshots in a populated area can have disastrous unintended consequences. I used to live in Houston where celebratory gunfire is common on holidays. Every year there are deaths due to it.

We are literally at a point where they will be trying to disarm DEMOCRATS. Pretty sad a lot of us are planning to arm ourselves, very soon.

And I speculate that more rethugs have unregistered weapons, given different regulations between red and blue states.

They can't take it if they don't know you have it.

you recommend countering *that* with a knife, bat or golf club?

Disarm them after knocking them unconscious, no one dies

eating the can of beans?

Not if, but, when.

because that is exactly what they are/were,

Equivalent to, “Well, bye.”

Arm yourselves, get trained.

One would think they must back, support and help in the defense of the home Owen. Even if it turns out they were ICE agents.

But I assume they would try to figure out how to confiscate guns only from certain types/groups/races of people they identify as problems.

Is to give citizens the means to defend themselves against a corrupt government. The NRA has been pretty silent about the 2nd Amendment recently.

...to the SC, and don't want to remind people that winning more than they lose means their plans are working.

Gang-types would likely shoot first, as they have nothing to lose.

Resisting even fake agents puts the real agents at risk will be the logic.

How is the average homeowner to be held responsible, if they can't differentiate between the real and the fake officials?
The 'real' officials need to start dressing and ACTING like real officials!

ICE needs to be in REAL, standard uniforms with clear badges. And they need to behave civilly, not just act like a mob attacking people and tossing them in vehicles.

People are gonna stop just watching and hoping a kidnapping was legit law enforcement. And ICE needs to GO WHERE THE GANGS ARE, not just where peaceful people are going about their lives.

No better way than stochastic terrorism!

(Love how I need to learn new terms while trying to navigate my older life....)

But we MUST call them out on their lies that it's about crime.

They want to sow fear and distrust so people will have no idea who are the masked goons coming for them.

Shit like this makes it possible for trump to release maxwell, etc.

but I think a lot of people would be like me... the confusion and chaos would only trickle down to the fire through the door level if I saw police outside. The usual person knocking at the door doesn't worry as much. Besides, they're often Jehovah's Witnesses or some other church group trying to convert me. I get a kick out of pointing out the Pagan items they're standing among, and telling them in no uncertain terms I'd never join such a satanic, anti-christian outfit as that which they represent.

They're openly using the Nazi playbook now.

The more the public sees people being apprehended by masked men and taken away in unmarked cars, the more likely members of the public will fight back.

Sadly, this risks escalation.

breaking up a family is earth shattering.

Police are very unlikely to conduct such a exercise with just two officers

If they have a warrant like that, they are busting the door in pretty much immediately.

Dont identify, be ready to die, should be the democrats motto from here on out.


Also, could you imagine if this happened on obama or bidens watch? Because he started new policies having people doing this shit? Havent women been assaulted from the same sort of thing since then?

officers. But it seems bizarre to me that two burglars or whatever would open fire first. What were they going to do, open fire, break in, steal whatever, and then escape having alerted everyone around to call the police?

of the home occupant and the assailants.

From a 2013 study, Race, Justifiable Homicide, and Stand Your Ground Laws: Analysis of FBI Supplementary Homicide Report Data, conducted by John K. Roman, PhD, The Urban Institute:

Unless, it is proven otherwise, I don't think any charges will be filed.

The HPD will be investigating the dead thugs..
What motivated them to do such as brazen thing?
What other crimes have they committed etc?

Seems pretty clear cut to me.

who is and who isn't law enforcement, inherent suspicion is completely justifiable.

I don’t play around with home invasion and keep my doors tightly locked. I consider masked people to be dangerous criminals. This is what masked intruders deserve, especially when they start firing their weapons.

I would like to know who these people were.

This is the "update" apparently because the same thing popped up.

I hope we learn more eventually.

I have no intention of taking it outside the house, but I could if I wanted to, and at least I've had some training. If things really go downhill and Trump's thugs come to my house, I'll at least take some with me.

Sounds like their bodies have been sitting out all night.

He was wondering who the backup band is.

It begins.

wear masks and don't show a badge. I'm not sure this helps their cause.

I'm guessing the homeowner had a scattergun.

NT

how do we distinguish them from the bad guys?
That would take a lot of guts to shoot two
people claiming to be cops. They could have very well been a couple of Trump's brown shirts.

And the deceased need to be identified, and their motivation guessed at.

I guess return fire wasn't expected.

Does 'stand your ground' thinking apply here?

We had a slight break from it when Biden was president but nope, too many people wanted to be ruled by the fucking asshole and now we're back in hell.

From a 2013 study, Race, Justifiable Homicide, and Stand Your Ground Laws: Analysis of FBI Supplementary Homicide Report Data, conducted by John K. Roman, PhD, The Urban Institute:

Usually when something like this happens in a nice area, it's a buzz for the day. (We've had people barricade themselves in nice areas and it's the talk of the town, but a shootout in a mediocre area doesn't get as much publicity) In this case, it seems more like a generic homicide with a twist.

Most of the homes appear to be about 1000 sq ft, 2 or 3 bedrooms with converted garages. A few houses appear to have auto junk in the front yard. A few yards have fences in the front. I personally wouldn't want to live there. It's not bad, but it's not nice either.
I got the street name from other reports. Most of the homes are appraised under $200,000.

These appraisal values are equivalent to our higher crime areas in San Antonio or areas where people are not flocking to etc.

Houston has 324 homicides per year. This appears to be just one of them, with more drama than average.

I personally don't think any charges will be filed against the residents, if things happened the way that they said it happened.

There are numerous cases of cop impersonation in Houston.

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/hsi-houston-warns-public-beware-imposters-spoofing-legitimate-law-enforcement-phone

assailants with body armor but no warrant shooting through the door of a home? What Houston income level or home value would trigger shock?

I posted like 5 videos of cop impersonators in Houston.
One guy posed as a cop to rob a liquor store last month.

My point—supported by credible research—is that Stand Your Ground is unevenly applied and may not protect Black homeowners defending their homes against armed, white intruders.

They had been watching them and targeted them for some reason.

I don't think they will be charged.

Thank you for bringing some local insight to this discussion.

morning's news.

But it's just a vibe I get. Home invasion. New twist, posing as law enforcement with masks.
Justifiable homicide.
Homeowner's ID is likely protected.
They haven't released homeowner's name.

This indicates to me that they think it's justifiable.

Also, even if it's justifiable, law enforcement will question the homeowner. However, media is not showing any footage of the homeowner. Once again, they're trying to protect the homeowner. They aren't even showing the house. Often media will show footage if they believe malice is involved or it's controversial etc.

St. Valentine Day Massacre is an example.