Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

usonian

(19,956 posts)
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 03:18 PM Aug 21

It Took Many Years And Billions Of Dollars, But Microsoft Finally Invented A Calculator That Is Wrong Sometimes

Not the Onion.
https://defector.com/it-took-many-years-and-billions-of-dollars-but-microsoft-finally-invented-a-calculator-that-is-wrong-sometimes

It's not AI winter just yet, though there is a distinct chill in the air. Meta is shaking up and downsizing its artificial intelligence division. A new report out of MIT finds that 95 percent of companies' generative AI programs have failed to earn any profit whatsoever. Tech stocks tanked Tuesday, regarding broader fears that this bubble may have swelled about as large as it can go. Surely, there will be no wider repercussions for normal people if and when Nvidia, currently propping up the market like a load-bearing matchstick, finally runs out of fake companies to sell chips to. But getting in under the wire, before we're all bartering gas in the desert and people who can read become the priestly caste, is Microsoft, with the single most "Who asked for this?" application of AI I've seen yet: They're jamming it into Excel.

Excel! The spreadsheet program! The one that is already very good at what it does, which is calculation and data analysis. You put some numbers in and it spits some numbers out. According to The Verge, "Microsoft Excel is testing a new AI-powered function that can automatically fill cells in your spreadsheets." Using natural language, the idea goes, you tell it what you want and then the AI will "classify information, generate summaries, create tables, and more."

If you squint a little, or just look at this through the eyes of a person or company with a vested financial interest in shoving AI products into every cranny of your life, you can sort of see the vision. Excel requires some skill to use (to the point where high-level Excel is a competitive sport), and AI is mostly an exercise in deskilling its users and humanity at large. If everything works right, you'll be able to tell the program, in words, broadly what you want it to do, rather than have to learn the formulas that already exist and have for decades, which tell the program exactly what you want it to do.

Ah, but there's a rub. Microsoft explicitly warns users that its AI function should not be used for things like "doing math" or "anything actually important":


(screensnap)



So, don't use Copilot for calculations and record-keeping,

and the value proposition (for the billions we spent on this "feature" ) is ????

And the bigger question, IMNSHO, is "Why bother with Excel at all when you can ask (insert chatbot of your choice) to just drop an answer on you?"

Personally, if accuracy matters, scrap Excel entirely.
Here are some shortcomings in data analysis:

https://mode.com/blog/best-excel-alternatives-for-data-analysts
What to rethink: Excel’s biggest limitations

When comparing Excel to other spreadsheet programs like Google Sheets, Zoho Sheet, or Apache OpenOffice’s Calc, the differences are fairly minor. But putting it up against today’s best solutions for advanced data analysis shows that it’s limitations are pretty prohibitive:

• Excel can’t handle large datasets or combine different data types and formats.

• Excel doesn’t allow for real-time analytics, machine learning, or any cutting-edge analysis.

• It’s hard to track changes and comments in Excel’s user interface

• Analysts can’t build in guardrails that keep data clean and standardized.

• Excel workflows aren’t secure enough for the modern tech stack.


If accuracy and accountability (being able to audit calculations for correct algorithms and for accuracy) or even SEE the algorithms! then the following are a few solid alternatives for when you need "more than a pie chart"

https://statanalytica.com/blog/open-source-data-analysis-tools/
(good article)
• Python (Pandas, NumPy, Matplotlib, Seaborn)
• R
• Jupyter Notebooks
• Octave (Matlab alternative)
and others

Key features of each, and some others, are summarized at the site.
11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
It Took Many Years And Billions Of Dollars, But Microsoft Finally Invented A Calculator That Is Wrong Sometimes (Original Post) usonian Aug 21 OP
But, markodochartaigh Aug 21 #1
Why can't I disable or uninstall CoPilot? FakeNoose Aug 21 #2
There should be a disable somewhere. usonian Aug 21 #3
R click on it on the start menu justaprogressive Aug 21 #11
Years ago I bought Quicken to do my taxes. moniss Aug 21 #4
I Love That Title! ProfessorGAC Aug 21 #5
I do, too. highplainsdem Aug 21 #6
Even the comments there are great. usonian Aug 21 #9
Thanks, usonion! Great read! I've been pointing out for years, whenever anyone idiotically compared highplainsdem Aug 21 #7
So, they finally fixed the bug (incuded an option) to stop interpreting gene sequences as dates. usonian Aug 21 #10
Well, that explains DOGE. allegorical oracle Aug 21 #8

markodochartaigh

(3,735 posts)
1. But,
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 03:22 PM
Aug 21

"Surely, there will be no wider repercussions for normal people..."

this is the thing, when a stock market bubble pops it ripples through the economy.

FakeNoose

(38,403 posts)
2. Why can't I disable or uninstall CoPilot?
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 03:42 PM
Aug 21

They never even asked me if I wanted CoPilot, suddenly it's on my computer.

moniss

(7,942 posts)
4. Years ago I bought Quicken to do my taxes.
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 04:19 PM
Aug 21

I thought it would be really great. Once I filled things in and went from one page to the next I noticed that the software had made a math error. Deleted everything and started over. Same error. No need to go any further and I went back to doing my taxes the old way. At the kitchen table with a basic desktop calculator and extra blank forms standing by.

usonian

(19,956 posts)
9. Even the comments there are great.
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 04:58 PM
Aug 21

Sarcastro?

DickNixon
I look forward to them pivoting and charging users a monthly fee to disable AI

highplainsdem

(57,906 posts)
7. Thanks, usonion! Great read! I've been pointing out for years, whenever anyone idiotically compared
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 04:51 PM
Aug 21

genAI to calculators, that no one in their right mind would have used calculators if they'd been as untrustworthy as genAI is.

usonian

(19,956 posts)
10. So, they finally fixed the bug (incuded an option) to stop interpreting gene sequences as dates.
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 05:05 PM
Aug 21

This one is going to be fun (if you don't use Excel)


https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/6/21355674/human-genes-rename-microsoft-excel-misreading-dates (2020)

This week, the HGNC published new guidelines for gene naming, including for “symbols that affect data handling and retrieval.” From now on, they say, human genes and the proteins they expressed will be named with one eye on Excel’s auto-formatting. That means the symbol MARCH1 has now become MARCHF1, while SEPT1 has become SEPTIN1, and so on. A record of old symbols and names will be stored by HGNC to avoid confusion in the future.

So far, the names of some 27 genes have been changed like this over the past year, Elspeth Bruford, the coordinator of HGNC, tells The Verge, but the guidelines themselves weren’t formally announced until this week. “We consulted the respective research communities to discuss the proposed updates, and we also notified researchers who had published on these genes specifically when the changes were being put into effect,” says Bruford.


So ...

Microsoft Finally Fixes Excel Glitch That Caused Major Headaches for Scientists
https://www.pcmag.com/news/microsoft-finally-fixes-excel-glitch-that-caused-major-headaches-for-scientists
Years after introducing Excel's automatic conversion features, Microsoft rolls out an update to prevent it from changing gene symbols to dates.
News
By Nick Evanson published October 25, 2023

But it really shouldn't have taken Microsoft this long to provide a solution.

Scientists give every gene a name and alphanumeric code (called a symbol) to help coordinate research. Unfortunately, those symbols can sometimes resemble dates, and Excel will "helpfully" convert them to actual dates. After causing many problems, an update is here to save the day.

Excel's insistence on automatically converting gene symbols to dates is so bad that scientists had to rename the genes to avoid it. The problem comes down to how genes are named and how Excel's automatic conversions work (or, rather, its lack of fine-tuning options). Typically, genes will get a name like "Differentiated embryonic chondrocyte expressed gene-1" (yes, that's an actual example), and for the sake of sanity, an abbreviation: in this case, Dec1. And from there, you can guess where this is going.

----

To make matters worse, Excel didn't have an option to turn automatic conversions off. There was no avoiding the issue: it had to be noticed, manually corrected, and then saved carefully. One study in 2016 examined 3,597 published papers and found errors introduced by Excel in a fifth of them.

But now, Excel finally has an update that should help. And it's so simple you might wonder why it didn't arrive sooner: you can now turn automatic conversions off. Head to Excel Options, and you'll find the new setting in the Data submenu. This adds to other improvements that gave warnings about potential errors with automatic conversions.
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»It Took Many Years And Bi...