Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

WhiskeyGrinder

(25,570 posts)
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 01:03 PM Aug 21

Israeli army database suggests at least 83% of Gaza dead were civilians



https://www.972mag.com/israeli-intelligence-database-83-percent-civilians-militants/

Data from an internal Israeli intelligence database indicates that at least 83 percent of Palestinians killed in Israel’s onslaught on Gaza were civilians, an investigation by +972 Magazine, Local Call, and the Guardian can reveal.

Figures obtained from the classified database — which records the deaths of militants from Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) — contradict by a huge margin the public statements of Israeli army and government officials throughout the war, which have generally claimed a 1:1 or 2:1 ratio of civilian to militant casualties. Instead, the classified data backs up the findings of several studies suggesting Israel’s bombardment of Gaza has killed civilians at a rate with few parallels in modern warfare.

The Israeli army confirmed the existence of the database, which is managed by the Military Intelligence Directorate (known by the Hebrew acronym “Aman”). Multiple intelligence sources familiar with the database said the army views it as the only authoritative tally of militant casualty figures. In the words of one of them: “There’s no other place to check.”

(snip)

The overall death tolls published daily by the Gaza Health Ministry (which Local Call revealed last year are considered reliable even by the Israeli military) do not distinguish between civilians and militants. But taking the militant casualty figures obtained from the internal Israeli army database in May and lining them up against the Health Ministry’s total death toll, it is possible to calculate an approximate civilian casualty ratio for the war up until three months ago, when the death toll stood at 53,000.
17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Israeli army database suggests at least 83% of Gaza dead were civilians (Original Post) WhiskeyGrinder Aug 21 OP
Interesting. Dave Bowman Aug 21 #1
US imposes sanctions on international court officials in 'flagrant attack Ping Tung Aug 21 #2
The Guardian article on this is very good too. AloeVera Aug 21 #3
The Guardian is the best source on the planet malaise Aug 21 #17
That graph is NOT from the database; it is a construction based on total numbers dead provided by Hamas. elias7 Aug 21 #4
Some view Hamas as reliably reporting freedom fighters. nt LexVegas Aug 21 #5
Apparently so does the IDF. AloeVera Aug 21 #12
Good Lord. You doubt a list of dead complete with ID numbers? AloeVera Aug 21 #6
Does the IDF "know" that civilians are "being used as human shields" why are they murdering them? Ping Tung Aug 21 #7
Being labelled a "human shield" is a death sentence. AloeVera Aug 21 #9
The troops are "just following orders". The unarmed civilians are reduced to necessary collateral damage. Ping Tung Aug 21 #11
Soldiers are brainwashed into acquiescence to being killing machines. AloeVera Aug 21 #14
Lol. There was a Chicago radio host, Jay Marvin, who used to refer to right wingers as "brain stems" Hassin Bin Sober Aug 21 #10
It's what happens when you wage total war in/on densely populated urban areas...nt Wounded Bear Aug 21 #8
Savage. H2O Man Aug 21 #13
You mean those "precision strikes" people said the IDF was carefully carrying out turned out to be bullshit? Rob H. Aug 21 #15
Duh! malaise Aug 21 #16

Ping Tung

(3,437 posts)
2. US imposes sanctions on international court officials in 'flagrant attack
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 01:31 PM
Aug 21

How dare the ICC challenge war criminals who are pals with Trump?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/20/trump-rubio-international-criminal-court-sanctions

The Trump administration has ramped up its efforts to hobble the international criminal court in what the ICC has denounced as a “flagrant attack against the independence of an impartial judicial institution”.

The US state department on Wednesday announced new sanctions on four ICC officials, including two judges and two prosecutors, saying they had been instrumental in efforts to prosecute Americans and Israelis. As a result of the sanctions, any assets that the targets hold in US jurisdictions are frozen.

The sanctions were immediately denounced by both the ICC and the United Nations, while Israel welcomed the move announced by the secretary of state, Marco Rubio.


It is just the latest in a series of steps the Trump administration has taken against the Hague-based court, the world’s first international war crimes tribunal. The US, which is not a member of the court, has already imposed penalties on the ICC’s former chief prosecutor, Karim Khan, who stepped aside in May pending an investigation into allegations of sexual misconduct, and four other tribunal judges.

AloeVera

(3,640 posts)
3. The Guardian article on this is very good too.
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 01:38 PM
Aug 21
In Gaza Israel is fighting Hamas militants in densely populated cities, and has set rules of engagement that allow its forces to kill large numbers of civilians in strikes on even low-ranking militants. “In Gaza we are talking about a campaign of targeted assassinations, really, rather than battles, and they are carried out with no concern for civilians,” Kaldor said.

The ratio of civilians among the dead in Gaza was more comparable to recent wars in Sudan, Yemen, Uganda and Syria, where much of the violence had been directed against civilians, she said. “These are wars where the armed groups tend to avoid battle. They don’t want to fight each other, they want to control territory and they do that by killing civilians,.

“Maybe that is the same with Israel, and this is a model of war [in Gaza] that is about dominating a population and controlling land. Maybe the objective always was forced displacement.”


Bolding mine.

Geez, 'ya think?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/revealed-israeli-militarys-own-data-indicates-civilian-death-rate-of-83-in-gaza-war

elias7

(4,226 posts)
4. That graph is NOT from the database; it is a construction based on total numbers dead provided by Hamas.
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 01:45 PM
Aug 21

The intelligence database reports 8,900 Hamas militants killed; they do not report the data on how many civilians dead. Instead, the very left wing 972mag creates the 83% number based on the total dead reported by Hamas (the Gaza Health Ministry). And we know terrorist organizations using humans-as-sacrifice strategy to drive international opinion would never public lie...

AloeVera

(3,640 posts)
12. Apparently so does the IDF.
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 03:55 PM
Aug 21
The source claimed that the Gaza Health Ministry figures are now regularly presented in military meetings and briefings after being found to be “reliable” in a review. “At every status briefing, when everyone updates each other on what’s happening, there’s a slide that shows the current number of civilians killed in Gaza. And that’s largely based exclusively on the Hamas Health Ministry,” he said.

"They characterized these databases, as a source, and asked whether it can be trusted or not. The conclusion is that overall, yes," the source said. "We assume that there is a gap between the data and reality and that it is possible that they are manipulating, but they checked, and it is reliable. They also saw that in previous rounds the reports from the Ministry of Health in Gaza were reliable. And also, we have no other source.

https://www.mekomit.co.il/%D7%94%D7%A6%D7%91%D7%90-%D7%91%D7%93%D7%A7-%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%A6%D7%90-%D7%A9%D7%93%D7%99%D7%95%D7%95%D7%97%D7%99-%D7%94%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%92%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%91%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%93-%D7%94%D7%91/

Of course it would be found to be reliable. It provides ID numbers that Israel can verify, being the issuer of those numbers.
If anything, it's a vast undercount. Only those that make it to hospitals AND can be matched with ID numbers, are counted.

We will eventually find out that tens of thousands of civilians - maybe more - are "missing". Only their neighbours and families who buried them - and the legions of Israeli bulldozer operators - know what happened to them.

AloeVera

(3,640 posts)
6. Good Lord. You doubt a list of dead complete with ID numbers?
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 02:24 PM
Aug 21

Every one on the list of dead is identified by name, age and ID number. In fact, experts are saying it is a vast undercount BECAUSE only the dead taken to hospitals and FULLY identified are being recorded. Some have suggested the real count is at least 3 times higher.

Not counted are the tens of thousands still under rubble, or bulldozed under by the Israeli bulldozer contractors, those sniped/ shelled/droned on the street and buried on the spot (if lucky) because most local hospitals are closed or are located in active war zones. .. And those that died in their tents from starvation or preventable or contagious diseases due to lack of medical care, clean water, far from operating hospitals.

Can you think about the scale of senseless but deliberately-inflicted human suffering - all enabled by that vile and abominable "human shields" bullshit?

We can see that it was all bullshit. Cynical, exploitative, and very convenient to cover the real aim, which was always the expansion of Israel using massacres and ethnic cleansing. Just like in the Nakba

Ping Tung

(3,437 posts)
7. Does the IDF "know" that civilians are "being used as human shields" why are they murdering them?
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 02:37 PM
Aug 21
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.

Albert Einstein

AloeVera

(3,640 posts)
9. Being labelled a "human shield" is a death sentence.
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 03:04 PM
Aug 21

In a manipulation of international law.

No, it's even worse. Every civilian indiscriminately killed is retroactively, posthumously and cynically labelled a "human shield". Even in death, Palestinians are pawns in a cruel game manufactured by their killers.

Just like civilians killed in "kill zones", who are posthumously "elevated" to the rank of Hamas.

“People are promoted to the rank of terrorist after their death,” said one intelligence source who accompanied forces on the ground. “If I had listened to the brigade, I would have come to the conclusion that we had killed 200% of Hamas operatives in the area.”


https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/revealed-israeli-militarys-own-data-indicates-civilian-death-rate-of-83-in-gaza-war

Either way, Palestinians are conveniently dead.

Ping Tung

(3,437 posts)
11. The troops are "just following orders". The unarmed civilians are reduced to necessary collateral damage.
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 03:18 PM
Aug 21

When I was in the marines, we were advised to consider our potential victims as targets rather than humans.

AloeVera

(3,640 posts)
14. Soldiers are brainwashed into acquiescence to being killing machines.
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 06:03 PM
Aug 21

So we fight each other instead of threats to our survival, like climate change or the chokehold of the oligarchs and capitalists condemning billions to poverty and an early, painful death. And they fight and die to maintain that unjust status quo.

I hope you, Ping Tung, have healed from your experience. It seems like you have seen the light... What an enlightening - but terrible - journey that must have been!



Hassin Bin Sober

(27,218 posts)
10. Lol. There was a Chicago radio host, Jay Marvin, who used to refer to right wingers as "brain stems"
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 03:17 PM
Aug 21

I see old Albert had the same idea.

Fucking brain stems.

H2O Man

(77,762 posts)
13. Savage.
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 04:00 PM
Aug 21

Recommended.

I wish that the UN would send real peace-keepers into both Gaza and the West Bank, and remove all Israeli troops and "settlers." There is no reason for not reaching a two state solution. And reaching that goal is the only path to ending the violence.

Rob H.

(5,703 posts)
15. You mean those "precision strikes" people said the IDF was carefully carrying out turned out to be bullshit?
Thu Aug 21, 2025, 06:20 PM
Aug 21

NO. WAY.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Israeli army database sug...