So does the killing continue because they have mutually exclusive rhetoric?

and Israel is in the process of wiping Gaza off the face of the map.

Matters to the victims of October 7? Is terrorism, murder and rape something Israelis have to accept as their price for living?

but not to eliminate Israel or kill all Israelis, as is Israel's stated policy toward Gaza.That's 2 million people Israel's government has sworn to kill. I understand that some see one Jewish life as worth 100,000 Palestinian lives, and Israel is making good on that belief.

Did Knesset pass a law to that effect? Did Israel's government pass a resolution to that effect? Did Netanyahu release an executive order to that effect? Please provide link.

If none of the above took place, it is not Israel's stated policy.

With a modern military if your armor and air power consists of Toyota pickups and RC helicopters.


FAFO

And Israel is in the process of wiping out Hamas, who are doing their best to take all of Gaza with them.

As fathers of dead children will continuously join.

Last edited Mon May 26, 2025, 11:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Hamas cannot be defeated on the battlefield as long as children get indoctrinated virtually from birth to become terrorists. It doesn't matter whether or not children die in Gaza. It will continue as long as Islamist radicals are in charge of Gaza's education system, regardless of whether there are war casualties or not. It is the indoctrination into the culture of martyrdom,, not war casualties that is the cause. Dead children are the effect.

And we all know where the indoctrination comes from, who controls it and who uses it to gain and maintain power. Radical Islamism. Hamas is but a cog in the machine.

You can destroy a cog, but it is not sufficient to destroy the machine. What destroying Hamas can accomplish, however, is to temporarily disable the machine. This can buy enough time to address the irreparable damage that their propaganda factories are doing to their young people. But only if sufficient resolve is there to end their control both on the battlefield and in the minds of their children.

And you are right, the radicals will not disappear even with a decisive military defeat, as long as there are interests condoning their murderous intolerance and making excuses for them. Not even if their extremism is met with silence.

We we at least have one point of agreement. I am also opposed to ethnic cleansing.

Do you not get or care that Israel has sworn to eliminate 2 million Gazan lives? Does that not bother you at all?

I also know what Hamas leaders have said.

I have also said that I am concerned for the plight of the Palestinians who are pawns of their own leaders and bear the brunt of Israeli attacks. An end to the conflict seems it would also be a de facto end to any ethnic cleansing, regardless of rhetoric. In the criticism of the offer, no one has presented any other option so far. Nor has anyone given a direct answer to my question of Israelis having to simply accept being victims of terrorists because they are Israeli.

Hamas has accepted Israel's terms. According to you, that solves the problem. We shall see.

In case it wasn't clear I am tentatively optimistic for the innocent civilians, Palestinian and Israeli.

Last edited Mon May 26, 2025, 11:13 PM - Edit history (1)

As of now, I have yet to hear that swearing from its source.

And I hope it doesn’t happen.

You will see how quickly all the "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide" and "land grab" and any such nonsense will end as soon as Hamas is gone.

I'm guessing if Trump is behind this deal, it's no good. A competent president would show Netanyahu and his goons what the United States used to do to terrorists.

Last edited Mon May 26, 2025, 07:07 PM - Edit history (1)

Israel is not promising the end of war unless Hamas disarms and gives up power.

Quite a difference from what you stated.

Trump plan is permanent ethnic cleansing:

Trump says Palestinians would not have a right to return to Gaza under his redevelopment plan
https://www.wkow.com/news/international/trump-says-palestinians-would-not-have-a-right-to-return-to-gaza-under-his-redevelopment/article_2d75099a-4a88-5739-88fc-342812111620.html

“No, they wouldn’t,” Trump said in an interview on Fox News when asked whether the Palestinians would have a right to return

Netenyahu fully endorses said Trump plan:

Netanyahu sets implementation of Trump’s Gaza relocation plan as new condition for ending war
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-implementation-of-trumps-gaza-relocation-plan-is-condition-for-ending-war/amp/

While “ready to end the war,” Netanyahu said he would only agree to do so “under clear conditions that will ensure the safety of Israel: All the hostages come home, Hamas lays down its arms, steps down from power, its leadership is exiled from the Strip… Gaza is totally disarmed; and we carry out the Trump plan. A plan that is so correct and so revolutionary.”

What Netanyahu says is not an offer. And what he praises is not even his plan.

If Israel ever leaves Trump's plan as the only plan at the negotiating table, only then you may state with accuracy what you did.

Until then, what Netanyahu says amounts to fluffing Trump, nothing more.

in the excerpt.

The outline is there, hostages for a ceasefire leading to negotiations for a permanent end to the conflict.

However the first step of negotiations is agreeing to negotiate.

The only ends are ethnic cleansing or the Islamic nation's rise together to try and destroy the Jewish nation.

I am more optimistic that extremism can be defeated.

Trump plan is permanent ethnic cleansing:

Trump says Palestinians would not have a right to return to Gaza under his redevelopment plan
https://www.wkow.com/news/international/trump-says-palestinians-would-not-have-a-right-to-return-to-gaza-under-his-redevelopment/article_2d75099a-4a88-5739-88fc-342812111620.html

“No, they wouldn’t,” Trump said in an interview on Fox News when asked whether the Palestinians would have a right to return

Netenyahu fully endorses said Trump plan:

Netanyahu sets implementation of Trump’s Gaza relocation plan as new condition for ending war
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-implementation-of-trumps-gaza-relocation-plan-is-condition-for-ending-war/amp/

While “ready to end the war,” Netanyahu said he would only agree to do so “under clear conditions that will ensure the safety of Israel: All the hostages come home, Hamas lays down its arms, steps down from power, its leadership is exiled from the Strip… Gaza is totally disarmed; and we carry out the Trump plan. A plan that is so correct and so revolutionary.”

yelling "genocide Don?"

Makes one wonder - eh?

Somehow such public pronouncements have escaped the attention of Israel's defenders on this board. https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=3454326
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/06/hamas-israel-hunger-war-in-gaza

or because they bought his phony "peace candidate" bullshit were warned about what would happen if Trump were elected.

They did as much to enable and empower Netanyahu as anyone.

They need to take responsibility and apologize to the people of Gaza.

Not voters in America.

Even if they can only come to a temporary agreement , a reprieve for the suffering the Palestinian people are experiencing and the release of Israelis to return to their homes is worth it

It seems some think it is acceptable thing for Hamas. I remember the Yazidi woman that had been kidnapped by them and escaped with Israel's help got little attention.

Trump plan is permanent ethnic cleansing:

Trump says Palestinians would not have a right to return to Gaza under his redevelopment plan
https://www.wkow.com/news/international/trump-says-palestinians-would-not-have-a-right-to-return-to-gaza-under-his-redevelopment/article_2d75099a-4a88-5739-88fc-342812111620.html

“No, they wouldn’t,” Trump said in an interview on Fox News when asked whether the Palestinians would have a right to return

Netenyahu fully endorses said Trump plan:

Netanyahu sets implementation of Trump’s Gaza relocation plan as new condition for ending war
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-implementation-of-trumps-gaza-relocation-plan-is-condition-for-ending-war/amp/

While “ready to end the war,” Netanyahu said he would only agree to do so “under clear conditions that will ensure the safety of Israel: All the hostages come home, Hamas lays down its arms, steps down from power, its leadership is exiled from the Strip… Gaza is totally disarmed; and we carry out the Trump plan. A plan that is so correct and so revolutionary.”

It seems it's acceptable for Hamas to carry out terrorist attacks and take hostages and then play victim .

Jews were forced out of Gaza decades ago .

that is a basic fact.

No one gives a fuck about Hamas. It's the 2 million Palestinian lives that Israel has sworn to eliminate that concern us.

regardless the Jews were forced out some years ago.

of the walled-off hell hole on Palestinian sovereign land that Israel itself created. Why do you assume Israel has the right to control the entire region?

And immediately before that, it was under Britain's mandatory rule. And before that, it was Ottoman sovereign land.

And in 1967 Israel occupied Egypt's Gaza, which they surrendered to the Palestinian Authority in 2005. And Hamas deposed PA in Gaza in 2007.

So when did Gaza become sovereign Palestinian land?

that is not the same as being "forced out."

Egypt had control of Gaza from 1948 to 1967.
Israel captured Gaza during the 6 Day War. Remember that one?
Israel left Gaza in 2005

A total of 38 years.

When Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 - twenty years ago, they left infrastructure and assets that were demolished by angry Palestinians. They squandered those assets which would make them less dependent.

Netanyahu and his minions have the desire to rid Gaza of Palestinians, not "Israel." Someone should
do a poll in Israel about that before making such claims.

I give a fuck about Hamas, and I'm quite sure that there are many many posters here that" give a fuck" about Hamas.

turning Gaza into a resort with his name on it, incalculable lives would have probably have been saved.