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malaise

(283,592 posts)
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 09:04 AM Monday

Huge power outages in Spain, and Portugal

The Madrid tennis Open is on pause

Spain and Portugal hit by massive power outage causing blackouts

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/28/spain-portugal-power-outage

Spain and Portugal have been hit by a massive power outage that has caused blackouts, Spain’s electricity network operator has said.

The Spanish grid operator Red Eléctrica said it had activated plans to restore the supply, with “all resources dedicated to solving” the disruption.

It said the Iberian peninsula, with a combined population of more than 50 million people, had been affected.

Spain’s public broadcaster RTVE said the outage had hit several regions of the country at about 12.30pm local time, leaving its newsroom, Spain’s parliament in Madrid and metro stations across the country in the dark.



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Huge power outages in Spain, and Portugal (Original Post) malaise Monday OP
Interesting, but no specifics as to why? harumph Monday #1
It only happened about 3 hours ago Nittersing Monday #2
Message auto-removed Name removed Monday #6
Freaking wow! malaise Monday #10
Just spoke with a friend in Belgium malaise Monday #11
Message auto-removed Name removed Monday #12
I'd imagine some (all?) phone masts have back-up generators, or UPSs muriel_volestrangler Monday #13
You are correct malaise Monday #15
Some good news malaise Monday #14
The bad news -Spanish distributor says restoring power after huge outage could take 6-10 hours. Portugal also hit malaise Monday #5
More here malaise Monday #9
"I am locked out of my apartment as the building has electronic key" muriel_volestrangler Monday #3
Damn! malaise Monday #4
The Day Iberia Stood Still Kid Berwyn Monday #7
Indeed malaise Monday #8
K&R CountAllVotes Monday #16
What caused it malaise Monday #20
Radio Nacional Espaa has good... róisín_dubh Monday #17
DU won't let me put the tilde in the title róisín_dubh Monday #18
Thank you so much malaise Monday #19
This was really pervasive DFW Monday #21
Good report here malaise Monday #22
What caused it? "Induced atmospheric vibration", some say. muriel_volestrangler Monday #23
Restoration ongoing malaise Monday #24
I'd normally hope to understand an explanation (with an engineering degree, even if I went into software) muriel_volestrangler Monday #25
Seems odd malaise Monday #26
Looks like you're right - they don't know why the happened malaise Tuesday #28
Last week, zero-cost electricity. Igel Monday #27

Response to Nittersing (Reply #2)

Response to malaise (Reply #11)

muriel_volestrangler

(103,524 posts)
13. I'd imagine some (all?) phone masts have back-up generators, or UPSs
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 10:53 AM
Monday

that keep them going a short while - with emergency phone numbers mostly going through them now, I imagine there may be requirements for that. It also wouldn't surprise me that they might have to restrict data if it uses more power and they don't know when mains power will be restored.

malaise

(283,592 posts)
15. You are correct
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 11:05 AM
Monday

One of my neighbors works with the utilities watchdog agency and can access them during power cuts.

malaise

(283,592 posts)
5. The bad news -Spanish distributor says restoring power after huge outage could take 6-10 hours. Portugal also hit
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 09:28 AM
Monday
https://apnews.com/article/spain-portugal-power-outage-electricity-b0c5fbca49b8422248c4f933e20303b3

Spanish power distributor Red Eléctrica said that restoring power to large parts of the country after a massive and unprecedented outage Monday that also hit Portugal could take 6-10 hours.

The company declined to speculate on the causes of the blackout. The Portuguese National Cybersecurity Center issued a statement saying there was no sign the outage was due to a cyberattack.

Eduardo Prieto, head of operations at Red Electrica, told journalists it was unprecedented, calling the event “exceptional and extraordinary.”

The outage hit across Spain and Portugal, including their capitals, knocking out subway networks, phone lines, traffic lights and ATM machines.

malaise

(283,592 posts)
9. More here
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 10:09 AM
Monday
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c9wpq8xrvd9t

Andorra and parts of France were also hit - although the Balearic and Canary Islands seem not to have been affected

muriel_volestrangler

(103,524 posts)
3. "I am locked out of my apartment as the building has electronic key"
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 09:21 AM
Monday
Jason emailed to say he is “stuck on a Renfe train from Seville about 30-40 miles southwest of Madrid near Toledo,” “stopped on a curve with no real way to be rescued should it come to that.”
...
Nuno is in Guimarães in Portugal and reports that “emergency shoppers crowd the few supermarkets with generators at lunchtime as parents pick students from closed schools.”

Sebastian messaged me from Porto, Portugal, saying “everyone is walking around with nothing to do,” as he worries about problems with payments and shop supplies.

“I am locked out of my apartment as the building has electronic key, que for cash (of the few ATMs working) are long with many people taking out significant sums,” he says.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/apr/28/ukraine-russia-zelenskyy-putin-trump-crimea-germany-europe-news-live-updates?CMP=share_btn_url&page=with%3Ablock-680f791d8f084935c8925a71#block-680f791d8f084935c8925a71

It is, at least, a nice day - sunny, temperature in the 70s Fahrenheit.

Kid Berwyn

(20,192 posts)
7. The Day Iberia Stood Still
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 09:41 AM
Monday

Two beautiful countries filled with good people. Both were run by fascist bastards and are now steady democracies — and members of NATO.



Hope they get the power back on, real soon. Life doesn’t require electric power, but civilization does.

malaise

(283,592 posts)
20. What caused it
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 02:28 PM
Monday
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/apr/28/spain-and-portugal-power-outage-cause-cyber-attack-electricity

REN said: “Due to extreme temperature variations in the interior of Spain, there were anomalous oscillations in the very high voltage lines (400 kV), a phenomenon known as ‘induced atmospheric vibration’. These oscillations caused synchronisation failures between the electrical systems, leading to successive disturbances across the interconnected European network.”
The risks posed to electrical systems by big variations in atmospheric temperatures are well known in the industry, even if it is rare for problems to manifest on this scale.

róisín_dubh

(11,995 posts)
17. Radio Nacional Espaa has good...
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 01:22 PM
Monday

coverage. I’m listening to Radio 5 on the Radio.net app. They speak fast, but as long as you understand context, you should get what they’re talking about.

DFW

(57,868 posts)
21. This was really pervasive
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 02:55 PM
Monday

Not only the trains and airports. Street lamps, all forms of electronic payment (except where generators kicked in).

This is one of the reasons my wife and I are totally against the so-called "cashless society." Not just because every single aspect of your life can be tracked by a control freak government (think Trump, or the formerly socialist countries of Eastern Europe), but also because it leaves those who depend on electronic cash completely are at the mercy of incidents like this.

A couple of years ago, we were in a small grocery store in a small town on Cape Cod, MA, and their electronic card processing system broke down. There was a young mother in line wanting to buy $5 worth of feeding formula for her baby. She only had a card, no cash. Upon being told at the cashier that she needed to pay cash, she broke down in tears because she didn't even have $5 in cash. My wife stepped in and gave her the $5, also giving her a German-accented earful of that she thought of being 100% dependent on cards for money. The woman wanted our address to repay my wife who said, "don't be ridiculous, it will cost you more than $5 to send $5 to Germany." My wife said the woman could repay her by never again going out with so little cash on her that this could ever happen. Considering how traumatized she seemed, she might just have done it.

I hope no such situations occurred down in Iberia, but they are really into cards down there, too, and I'll bet that plenty of people were caught off-guard, although the people there are (in general) very friendly, and willing to help out people in need.

We really hope this was caused by extreme environmental conditions, because if this was a coordinated attack, and was a dry run for similar action on northern Europe, it showed how vulnerable a huge area can be to being shut down in an instant.

malaise

(283,592 posts)
22. Good report here
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 03:42 PM
Monday
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c9wpq8xrvd9t

Power is coming back in the Spanish capital, some shops and the metro. Some rural areas are reporting the power being restored.
Public transport, the trains and metro are still not open to the public but security is gathering at the entrance of Sol metro station for it to be opened soon.
Rural areas north of Madrid have reported the power and Wifi coming back.

———-
Always have some cash…always😀

muriel_volestrangler

(103,524 posts)
23. What caused it? "Induced atmospheric vibration", some say.
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 06:22 PM
Monday
REN said: “Due to extreme temperature variations in the interior of Spain, there were anomalous oscillations in the very high voltage lines (400 kV), a phenomenon known as ‘induced atmospheric vibration’. These oscillations caused synchronisation failures between the electrical systems, leading to successive disturbances across the interconnected European network.”

The risks posed to electrical systems by big variations in atmospheric temperatures are well known in the industry, even if it is rare for problems to manifest on this scale.

“Due to the variation of the temperature, the parameters of the conductor change slightly,” said Taco Engelaar, managing director at Neara, a software provider to energy utilities. “It creates an imbalance in the frequency.”

Georg Zachmann, a senior fellow at Bruegel, a Brussels thinktank, saidthe system had suffered “cascading disconnections of power plants” – including one in France – when the frequency of the grid dropped below the European standard of 50Hz.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/apr/28/spain-and-portugal-power-outage-cause-cyber-attack-electricity

Though I'm not entirely convinced about these "big variations in atmospheric temperatures":

It comes as Spain enjoyed temperatures 'well above the seasonal average' in recent days, according to Spanish News Today. The publication reports that an Azores anticyclone had led to calm and dry conditions across the country.

In recent days temperatures have hit 30c in Sevilla and 25c in Madrid.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/world-news/rare-atmospheric-phenomenon-behind-huge-31527467

Warm for the time of year, but not for summer, and if the conditions are "across the country", then there isn't a big regional variation.

Or maybe the France-Spain interconnection - whether that's "induced atmospheric vibration" too, I can't tell:

Spain and Portugal's sweeping blackout originated from a failure of interconnection between France and Spain's grid, Reuters reports.

Spanish grid operator REE's system operations chief Eduardo Prieto told La Vanguardia that the interconnection failure, which occurred at just after 12.30 p.m. local time, was responsible for the outage that affected most of the Iberian Peninsula on Monday.

https://www.newsweek.com/spain-portugal-power-outages-updates-energy-firm-blames-rare-weather-phenomenon-2065258

muriel_volestrangler

(103,524 posts)
25. I'd normally hope to understand an explanation (with an engineering degree, even if I went into software)
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 06:41 PM
Monday

but all I can find looks like handwaving so far. Some scepticism here:

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/848666/what-is-induced-atmospheric-vibration

One answer points to a paper "Diagnosis and Mitigation of Observed Oscillations in IBR-Dominant Power Systems" ('IBR' is "inverter-based resources" "such as solar photovoltaics, wind, and battery systems and inverter-based transmission, distribution, and load technologies" ), but that barely mentions temperature (just about the temperature of capacitors, a couple of times - nothing about weather).

This news report also seems sceptical:

The bigger problem is if the ionised air around the cable starts to interact with the cable itself. That changes the frequency inside the wire. Making it different to the rest of the grid.
...
We saw that after a massive electrical storm in Australia in 2016 when there were 80,000 lightning strikes.

The weather in Spain on Monday was calm and sunny with average spring temperatures.

According to an expert I spoke to, it would be “really really weird” for this weather to have caused - or 'induced atmospheric vibrations’.

https://www.itv.com/news/2025-04-28/oscillations-and-vibrations-what-caused-the-power-outage-in-spain-and-portugal

Or maybe it was lost in translation, or in explaining to a non-technical person:

"These oscillations caused synchronisation failures between the electrical systems, leading to successive disturbances across the interconnected European networks," Portuguese energy company REN reportedly told the BBC on Monday afternoon.

REN later refuted these claims in the Portuguese media. But what are these vibrations, and what effect would they have had on the region’s power grid?

Solomon Brown, a professor of process and energy systems at the University of Sheffield in the UK, said that an "induced atmospheric vibration" could be considered the equivalent of "inducing a small shift in the local electromagnetic field".

https://www.euronews.com/next/2025/04/28/what-could-have-caused-the-major-power-outage-in-spain-and-portugal-experts-weigh-in

Igel

(36,742 posts)
27. Last week, zero-cost electricity.
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 08:31 PM
Monday

This week, zero electricity.

Hopefully completely unrelated.

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