deployed in Ukraine, as well as advanced fighter jets to protect civilian areas from bombing, drone, and artillery attacks.

Let the russians whine and sulk and threaten all they like.

and the Europeans know it.

But American citizens would not support trump.

Clearly, Trump doesn’t care what any of us think, not even his own supporters and donors.

And sadly many Americans know it too

Pakistani minister said they have 130 nukes aimed at India.

Would attacking a neighboring country, a soverign nation, & countinuing to destroy their countty, murdering citizens & disappearing 35,000 of their children qualify as 'unfriendly actions?'

Go nuke yourself pootin.

after watching what they've been doing to Ukraine for the past 3+ years I have some kind of nasty fantasies.

FWIW, I don't believe they would actually start a nuclear war. But if they did start one, they wouldn't be the ones to finish it, and that's even if the US stayed out of it.

I would prefer it if everyone would simply treat them like they're bluffing, and just do whatever they think is necessary to end the war. European forces in Ukrainian controlled Ukraine will never be seen as an existential threat by russia, no matter how much they claim it is. The longer this war goes on, the more dangerous things become, and it won't be ended by simply giving Putin most or all of what he's demanding.

And if so, do they thus accord the Ukrainians the right to use nuclear weapons on them?

Seems Russia waited until Ukraine was disarmed of its own nukes to invade that nation. Maybe it's time to give Ukraine back their nukes AND let them join NATO. If Russia isn't the aggressor (they most certainly are) why would it bother them?

If I remember correctly, the Ukraine gave its nukes back to the Soviet leadership, what was left of it, and that was Putin. Obviously, they thought they'd never need them again, and if Putin had not been possessed of ambition of rebuilding the Soviet Empire, the Ukrainians would have been right. For someone who has been a sly strategist elsewhere, Putin certainly made a major blunder when he assessed the local resistance to being re-absorbed into the Empire. Just like Cheney and Rumsfeld with Iraq: "maybe six days, maybe six weeks, certainly not six months." Подумаете ещё раз, там, товарищи (better think about that again, there, comrades).

The deal happened under Yeltsin while Putin was still a nobody in russian politics.

They were pushed very, VERY hard to give up their nukes by the Clinton administration, who apparently believed that non-proliferation was the key to global peace and stability.

Ukraine was reluctant because they always understood that resurgent russian aggression and imperialism was a serious risk, but they were pretty much strongarmed into it.

That's why the Budapest Memorandum was signed, and the US made lots of promises to protect Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity, along with the UK. Russia also signed and promised never to invade or violate Ukraine's sovereignty.

Our country owes Ukraine far, far more than what we've ever given them. They've pretty much been let down by every US administration since they gained their independence.

Its greatest expansion was under Stalin, who wasn’t even Russian. I think the only reason Putin has left the Baltics alone so far is that he still has the port of Königsberg to sail in and out of (aka Kaliningrad), though he’d still like to have a land bridge from there to Russian territory.

Agreed that we let the Ukrainians down terribly, and owe them a moral debt that does not look like it will be repaid. Certainly not as long as VVP has the pull he does with the current administration. And while there is officially no more USSR, VVP still runs the place as if he were both first secretary and head of the комитет (KGB) rolled into one. Only his deference to the Orthodox church is a deviation, and who knows how sincere that is? His methods hardly differ. There is a simple grave somewhere up there with the remains of the biological father of my son-in-law, who was dispensed with before the days when eighth floor windows became fashionable.

it was very different in many respects. Very different political structures and institutions and rules for how things operated. Still informed by the same underlying russian chauvinism and imperialism, as well as the same impulses to authoritarianism and slavish obedience on the part of the serfs.

I don't agree that Putin operates simply as another Soviet general secretary. With the exception of Stalin, who originated the position, they all operated under constraints that Putin is not subject to. They were always surrounded by powerful individuals within the Politburo and Central Committee who could take them out if they overstepped the boundaries (Khrushchev) and always maintained some level of restraint over them.

Putin operates more a czar, but in a country that essentially has no institutions or structures or other powerful individuals who can in any way restrain him. The church is nothing more than a front for the old KGB, and Putin's "piety" has most likely been adopted because it's a useful tool for controlling his society.

And now all that unchecked power is behind the US president and his administration. God help us!

Stop the killing, the hate...

If Jesus were considering coming back, He might glance at the modern world, note humanity’s confusion between wisdom and information, and wisely decide to delay until we remember the difference."

you said:

it's about how angry I am at Russia. It's about wanting russia to disappear.

But yeah, I'm a horrible psychopathic monster who has the power to shape US or EU policy to my evil ends.

You'd probably be better off putting me on "ignore".

will be magically immune.

Nuclear war on the scale that involves the mass destruction of Europe (we also have nukes, so Russia will be lit up as well) will be devastating at a planetary level, including the US.

I cannot believe I am having this colloquy here on DU.

things like putting all MAGAs into reeducation camps, or hold Nuremberg type trials, just for their votes and opinions, not their actions.

So, do you find my expressed fantasies to be more offensive than the words of actual high ranking Russian officials threatening to launch nuclear weapons at Europe? Because those are people who are close to or at the centers of power that can actually make those threats into reality.

But yeah, better to get yourself all worked up about some nobody's impotent fantasies about making russia disappear.

I normally really like your posts, but it might be best for both of us if we both put each other on ignore.

And I wouldn't keep hitting your head like that. It might cause long term injury.

It is a direct and murderously hostile expression of hate towards us living in Europe and I will not ever give countenance to it.

I cannot express how enraging this is for me.

Maybe it would help you to calm down if you had a drink or some weed, or touched grass, or something. In the meantime it might be best for both of us to utilize "ignore".

Not trying to condescend to you, but I seem to really be setting you off, so I think it will be best for both of us if I ignore you and then can just stop reacting to you. It's up to you if you want to do the same.

Sorry to have to do that, since, as I said, I usually like your posts and find them informative.

Anyway, I guess this is goodbye for now.

Each one of us is experiencing frustration. I, too, am tired of the constant nuclear threat from Russia. They always express themselves as if they will not be touched.

You know, all the neighboring countries of Russia are actively preparing defenses against a war with Russia. They all feel it. They are busy fortifying themselves because they don't plan to give in to Putin. If Putin triggers Article 5, HE will start WW3.

I think this last stuff is just against Trump threatening new sanctions. He's not going to do that, but what can he do against Ukraine? They're already in the suck. And Trump is a dumb fuck for sure. He doesn't care about dead people. He cares about the Nobel Prize. But, he's not getting that.

Take it easy, Guys. We'll get through this. You are both right, and you are both speaking from frustration, and fear. We are not afraid, and we WILL get rid of Trump. Please, neither one of you leave.

Maybe it’s best that the Russians don’t nuke Europe, and Europe doesn’t nuke them back and we can avoid WWIII and a nuclear holocaust. There’s a lot of places I’d like to visit in Europe…

I know we’re dealing with a Russian regime worse than any during the days of the Soviet Union, but hoping for WWIII is basically the stuff of sociopathic nihilists. It’s the sort of comment I see on say Fox News or daily mail or some other cesspool.

Relax. Crunchy Frog doesn’t fit the definition of a socialistic nihilist. He/She’s comment isn’t likely to cause Putin to start WW3. I read the comment with a view that CF is frustrated and tired of the useless threats from Russia. That’s all it was. DU is not a cesspool of socialistic nihilists. It is a place where you should be allowed to express frustration.

You will hear Russia, through its spokespeople, threaten nukes whenever they have no diplomacy to counter the retaliation they perceive could happen. We’ve heard it for three years. We are just tired of it. In no way do we wish for WW3. Russia is exceptionally stupid with their rhetoric. Rather than ceasing their unwarranted war, they would rather threaten a war in which they would be reduced to a grease spot on the tundra.

Nobody was after Russia. Putin miscalculated, after their stunning annexation of other counties’ territory, and Crimea, and thought he could just walk in and take the seaports, rare earth, and the farmland. They were wrong. And yet, they keep digging the hole where they are currently mired, and periodically threaten the world with nukes.

I think we are all up and down, day to day, and it is precisely because we DO care what happens to others that our frustration levels fluctuate. We just wish that someone would punch Putin in the face, and make him stop. Sometimes the balance of the equation is like for like. It was just an expression of frustration, and being sick of being threatened. No need to make any more of it than that.

And don't worry, I'm not going anywhere. I just sometimes stop engaging with certain posters for awhile, which I have done.

But yes, very frustrated with russia continually threatening nuclear war and seemingly getting away with the blackmail, as it seems somewhat effective in stopping other countries from giving Ukraine the support they need and deserve. If only they had an ally who was at least as supportive and reliable as North Korea.