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moniss

(7,189 posts)
Sat Apr 26, 2025, 01:38 AM Apr 26

"Absurd': Lawyer tears apart Trump DOJ's case for arresting judge"

This is the headline of an article from Raw Story dated 04/25/25 with a byline from Matthew Chapman. I had earlier looked at the arrest affidavit of the government and raised some of these same issues as the lawyer who heads up the Elections board in Wisconsin.

Such as:

"But observers who examine the complaint and know the layout of Dugan's courthouse will see the allegation falls apart, wrote lawyer Ann Jacobs. And it appears the judge sent Flores-Ruiz into a public hallway full of six federal agents from Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Customs and Border Protection, and Drug Enforcement Administration."

And further in:

"Later in the complaint, Jacobs continued, is "a discussion about Judge Dugan 'forcefully' and 'stern[ly] instructing the man in question to go out the jury door.' BUT! It is not only a door to the jury room. It is *also* an exit to the *public* hallway. You know, the hallway where law enforcement is waiting ... Then what happens? The two DEA agents SEE him and do [checks notes] nothing. They don't arrest him, they don't do anything. They watch him?"

So what are we to make of the allegation of mysterious use of one set of elevators further from Dugan's court? Turns out the allegations fall apart even further:

""Here's why this is absurd - there are 2 banks of elevators in the courthouse: 1 goes to the ground floor, and 1 goes to the 9th street exit which is where the parking structure is. In fact, there are even SIGNS telling you which bank of elevator goes where," wrote Jacobs. "So - yes - you sometimes walk past one set of elevators so you can get where you want to go. If you are not going to the parking structure (which most people are), you take the other set of elevators because they are less crowded. Suspicious? No - literally something hundreds of people do daily in the courthouse. This attempt to make it into something is just dumb (especially since they claim to be familiar with the elevators - clearly not)."

I had noted and commented when I read the affidavit that they could have also arrested him in the elevator because they were right there with him:

"The complaint then admits a DEA agent got into the elevator with Flores-Ruiz, noted Jacobs, and "They then have some sort of keystone cop moment where the man is at the ground level but the agents go to the lower level and have to race around to find him. They chase him and arrest him. Which they could have done in the public hallway but chose not to."

My only quibble with that last excerpt is that capitalization is appropriate for Keystone Cops. Bless the memory of actor/creator Hank Mann and producer Mack Sennett. It is an apt reference though to the courthouse scene.

Which leads to a conclusion in the article:

""All of which is to say - the attempt to make this into something criminal on the part of the judge who sent him to the public hall where law enforcement was waiting requires a lot of reaching and a lot of work and a lot of pejorative statements designed to taint the complaint," Jacobs concluded. "The further attempt to sensationalize the matter by arresting Judge Dugan - instead of simply asking her to appear - was wholly unnecessary and certainly appears to be designed solely to intimidate. Very unfortunate."

All taken together this raises the question of whether they set this up more or less after getting confronted by Dugan in the beginning. They chose on more than one occasion not arrest the man long before any need to "chase" him. They chose not to in the public hallway and then again on the elevator. Did they do so hoping there could be some sort of escalation and they could blame it on Dugan? It would be most instructive to see any messaging that took place among the members of that "team" and their superiors while the Chief Judge was in a lengthy phone conversation with the superiors.

An interesting question will be what will the supposed "witnesses" cited in the affidavit actually testify to as opposed to what the affiant claims they said? The afffidavit smelled of embellishment with loaded adjectives etc. describing the demeanor of Dugan and using what amounts to incomplete observations by a court deputy to make implications to support a conclusion.

As I had also pointed to in an earlier comment they ran to an arrest warrant as opposed to interviewing the judge. She is your suspect and she's right there so why not interview her and ask questions just like the FBI does for tens of thousands of people suspected of crimes every year? So they choose not to arrest the man on multiple occasions and then also choose not to do a standard move of interviewing the readily available suspect for their supposed crime of obstruction. Strange choices and it tells us that something smells in Milwaukee way beyond the fragrance of pickled herring and brats on the grill.

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-judge-arrest/

7 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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artemisia1

(990 posts)
2. It is about setting an example and making the judiciary afraid of the Executive branch. It may work. Let's hope not. /nt
Sat Apr 26, 2025, 06:59 AM
Apr 26

Liberal In Texas

(15,161 posts)
3. It was all theater: To make the people and especially the legal system afraid of the Gestapo.
Sat Apr 26, 2025, 07:33 AM
Apr 26

They're sending a message that people and lawyers better not help whoever they're after (innocent or not, citizen or not) from being rounded up or even being informed about their legal rights.

muriel_volestrangler

(103,524 posts)
4. Sounds like the agents screwed up in their operation, and are blaming the judge to cover their asses
Sat Apr 26, 2025, 10:03 AM
Apr 26

and that it'll get laughed out of court. But, as pointed out, it has served the purpose of telling judges "we'll come after you too unless you bend the knee".

LetMyPeopleVote

(162,428 posts)
5. Judge Dugan was arrested without presenting case to grand jury-this was a stunt to whip MAGA faithful into a frenzy
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 06:40 PM
Monday

I am a corporate lawyer but I do know basic federal criminal procedure. Judge Dugan was arrested on a magistrate warrant and the case had NOT been presented to a grand jury. Before this case can go to trial, this case has to be presented to and voted on by a grand jury. The arrest on Friday was a stunt to "whip the MAGA faithful into a frenzy." One can arrest a suspect without a grand jury indictment but normally there has to be good reason for such arrest
https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lnuuhqajbk2j

New in PN: Arresting judges is a 5-alarm escalation

"It’s not just that Dugan was arrested, but how she was arrested. The whole point was to cause a scene. There’s no allegation she was attempting to evade arrest, but the FBI still forced a sitting judge to do a perp walk at her place of work."



https://www.publicnotice.co/p/trump-bondi-arresting-judges-hannah-dugan

It’s not just that Dugan was arrested, but also how she was arrested. The whole point was to cause a scene. She was arrested Friday morning in the parking lot of the Milwaukee County Courthouse, complete with handcuffs. There’s no allegation she was a flight risk or was attempting to evade arrest, but the FBI still forced a sitting judge to do a perp walk at her place of work.

Additionally, Dugan was arrested pursuant to a criminal complaint signed by a federal magistrate judge. There’s nothing improper about that as such, but for felonies in federal court, prosecutors must convene a grand jury and present evidence. Only if the grand jury returns an indictment can someone be prosecuted.

Going before a grand jury isn’t a nicety or a minor procedural step. The Fifth Amendment requires it. Arresting Dugan before convening a grand jury was intended to get flashy headlines and whip the MAGA faithful into a frenzy. Even if a grand jury declines to indict Dugan, the administration has succeeded in creating a climate of fear and suspicion.

Recall that although Trump faced 88 charges in four criminal cases for much worse things than what Dugan is accused of, he was always charged by indictment after presentation to a grand jury and allowed to turn himself in. Here he is in Georgia, where he faced 13 felony counts for trying to overturn the 202 election. Here he is in New York, where he faced — and was convicted of — 34 felonies related to falsifying business records to hide his hush payments to Stormy Daniels. New York state was so solicitous of Trump that he didn’t even have to have his mug shot taken. When he voluntarily surrendered in Miami for the classified documents case, he wasn’t handcuffed.,,,,,

It will be interesting to see a grand jury would indict this judge on the actual facts

One hurdle prosecutors might have in securing an indictment against Dugan was that ICE had an administrative warrant, not a judicial warrant, for Flores-Ruiz. The criminal complaint obscures this, referring only to a “warrant” or an “arrest warrant” in most places. The only time an administrative warrant is mentioned is when the complaint quotes Dugan saying it.

As much as the administration would like it to be otherwise, those administrative warrants aren’t the same as judicial warrants. Judicial warrants are signed by a federal or state judge or magistrate and must be complied with as long as they are valid. Administrative warrants — also known as immigration warrants — are issued by administrative agencies such as ICE and signed by an immigration judge. Despite also being called judges, immigration judges are not part of the judicial branch. They are appointed by the attorney general and are part of the executive branch.

I wonder if this case will ever be presented to a grand jury,

moniss

(7,189 posts)
7. Thank you for the input and when I read the
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 07:17 PM
Monday

arrest affidavit for Dugan it was clear this was a put-up job. I doubt they will get a grand jury to indict.

LetMyPeopleVote

(162,428 posts)
6. Judge Dugan was arrested without presenting case to grand jury-this was a stunt to whip MAGA faithful into a frenzy
Mon Apr 28, 2025, 06:40 PM
Monday

I am a corporate lawyer but I do know basic federal criminal procedure. Judge Dugan was arrested on a magistrate warrant and the case had NOT been presented to a grand jury. Before this case can go to trial, this case has to be presented to and voted on by a grand jury. The arrest on Friday was a stunt to "whip the MAGA faithful into a frenzy." One can arrest a suspect without a grand jury indictment but normally there has to be good reason for such arrest
https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lnuuhqajbk2j

New in PN: Arresting judges is a 5-alarm escalation

"It’s not just that Dugan was arrested, but how she was arrested. The whole point was to cause a scene. There’s no allegation she was attempting to evade arrest, but the FBI still forced a sitting judge to do a perp walk at her place of work."



https://www.publicnotice.co/p/trump-bondi-arresting-judges-hannah-dugan

It’s not just that Dugan was arrested, but also how she was arrested. The whole point was to cause a scene. She was arrested Friday morning in the parking lot of the Milwaukee County Courthouse, complete with handcuffs. There’s no allegation she was a flight risk or was attempting to evade arrest, but the FBI still forced a sitting judge to do a perp walk at her place of work.

Additionally, Dugan was arrested pursuant to a criminal complaint signed by a federal magistrate judge. There’s nothing improper about that as such, but for felonies in federal court, prosecutors must convene a grand jury and present evidence. Only if the grand jury returns an indictment can someone be prosecuted.

Going before a grand jury isn’t a nicety or a minor procedural step. The Fifth Amendment requires it. Arresting Dugan before convening a grand jury was intended to get flashy headlines and whip the MAGA faithful into a frenzy. Even if a grand jury declines to indict Dugan, the administration has succeeded in creating a climate of fear and suspicion.

Recall that although Trump faced 88 charges in four criminal cases for much worse things than what Dugan is accused of, he was always charged by indictment after presentation to a grand jury and allowed to turn himself in. Here he is in Georgia, where he faced 13 felony counts for trying to overturn the 202 election. Here he is in New York, where he faced — and was convicted of — 34 felonies related to falsifying business records to hide his hush payments to Stormy Daniels. New York state was so solicitous of Trump that he didn’t even have to have his mug shot taken. When he voluntarily surrendered in Miami for the classified documents case, he wasn’t handcuffed.,,,,,

It will be interesting to see a grand jury would indict this judge on the actual facts

One hurdle prosecutors might have in securing an indictment against Dugan was that ICE had an administrative warrant, not a judicial warrant, for Flores-Ruiz. The criminal complaint obscures this, referring only to a “warrant” or an “arrest warrant” in most places. The only time an administrative warrant is mentioned is when the complaint quotes Dugan saying it.

As much as the administration would like it to be otherwise, those administrative warrants aren’t the same as judicial warrants. Judicial warrants are signed by a federal or state judge or magistrate and must be complied with as long as they are valid. Administrative warrants — also known as immigration warrants — are issued by administrative agencies such as ICE and signed by an immigration judge. Despite also being called judges, immigration judges are not part of the judicial branch. They are appointed by the attorney general and are part of the executive branch.

I wonder if this case will ever be presented to a grand jury,
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