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Mossfern

(4,440 posts)
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 05:59 PM Mar 2024

Girl Scout troop disbands over fund raiser for relief for Gazan children

I rarely visit Facebook, but this was posted by the person who publishes a local news site for our town. She said that she is boycotting Girl Scouts and not buying their cookies because of this.

https://www.stlpr.org/show/st-louis-on-the-air/2024-02-27/disbanded-girl-scout-troop-vows-to-continue-support-for-child-war-victims-in-gaza

I think there is a difference between the war in Ukraine and Gaza.
I have my own thoughts about this, but I'm biased, so I am looking for different perspectives.

The girls could have sold any pretty bracelets for their fund raiser, but chose a design that says "Gaza" and "Palestine". There's a Washington Post article about this with photos of the bracelets that are the colors of the Palestinian flag. To me, that makes a political statement beyond the purpose of the fundraiser.

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Girl Scout troop disbands over fund raiser for relief for Gazan children (Original Post) Mossfern Mar 2024 OP
This is a sad commentary on the fallout from that terrible war. brush Mar 2024 #1
The number of Ukrainian deaths and the number of documented Ukrainian deaths Crunchy Frog Mar 2024 #3
The numbers are the numbers. The huge death toll in Gaza is just outrageous... brush Mar 2024 #5
The death toll in Gaza is outrageous. The death toll in Mariupol and Crunchy Frog Mar 2024 #7
With those numbers, Israel is making Russia look "less bad".... DemocraticPatriot Mar 2024 #4
Fixed that for you... pinkstarburst Mar 2024 #8
there is more to that story Celerity Mar 2024 #13
It's both. They're both killing innocents ecstatic Mar 2024 #14
You've stripped away all context Mosby Mar 2024 #23
It seems like the issue is that they didn't notify council xmas74 Mar 2024 #2
If they sold cookies with "Israel" on it, would that be okay? Earth-shine Mar 2024 #6
Maybe they should just sell the cookies sans political statements. harumph Mar 2024 #9
It was a fundraiser specifically for the children of Gaza. I don't think the girls were thinking about politics. Earth-shine Mar 2024 #10
They didn't contact council with details before starting. xmas74 Mar 2024 #17
The purpose of Girl Scout Cookie sales is to teach some lessons on running a business.... brooklynite Mar 2024 #11
We Are Girl Scouts limbicnuminousity Mar 2024 #12
yes, apparently, these Girl Scouts were worrying about the "wrong" dead children. riversedge Mar 2024 #16
If you read the article Mossfern Mar 2024 #21
That explains limbicnuminousity Mar 2024 #22
"..members of former Girl Scouts Troop 149 have sold more than 2,000 friendship bracelets$10,000 in donations......... riversedge Mar 2024 #15
It's hard for me to imagine people opposing fundraisers for suffering children. SYFROYH Mar 2024 #18
There is no opposition to fundraising for starving children in the Girl Scout's decision Mossfern Mar 2024 #19
It was their mistake, and they were unjust in dissing the Girl Scouts gulliver Mar 2024 #20
 

brush

(61,033 posts)
1. This is a sad commentary on the fallout from that terrible war.
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 06:27 PM
Mar 2024

Politics aside, although one can't really do that, I commend the scouts and their troop for their empathy and sympathy for the Palestinian children.

I just read today that there have been some 500 Ukrainian children killed, whereas there have been 18,000 Palestinian children killed.

Quite a difference.

Crunchy Frog

(28,102 posts)
3. The number of Ukrainian deaths and the number of documented Ukrainian deaths
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 01:40 AM
Mar 2024

are very different things. The parts of Ukraine that have been most affected are the parts that can't be accessed by any international organizations that monitor such things because they are currently under russian occupation. There could very well have been more than 500 children killed in the Mariupol Drama Theater alone, let alone in the rest of the city during 3 months of indiscriminate bombardment. The official numbers only include the areas where they can be documented.

I'm horrified by the numbers of children killed in Gaza, but I hate it when those numbers are put up against the Ukrainian numbers, as it's a false equivalency and there's no way that meaningful comparisons can actually be made.

 

brush

(61,033 posts)
5. The numbers are the numbers. The huge death toll in Gaza is just outrageous...
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 03:53 AM
Mar 2024

Last edited Sat Mar 2, 2024, 04:34 AM - Edit history (2)

and who knows how many more are buried in the rubble, yet to be added to the toll.

I imagine there are more Ukrainian dead chidren yet to be accounted for also.

There is no attempt to downplay or compare those figures, it's just relaying what the reported numbers are. Both figures are tragic and the killers should be held accountable when both wars are over.

Crunchy Frog

(28,102 posts)
7. The death toll in Gaza is outrageous. The death toll in Mariupol and
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 06:24 AM
Mar 2024

the rest of occupied Ukraine is simply unknown, though Mariupol may exceed 80,000, based on images of mass graves and other evidence. The official Ukrainian death count is based on only those deaths that can be documented in areas that are currently under Ukrainian control. Even there, the numbers can be definitive only for places that have never been under russian occupation. Trying to compare the two is like comparing apples and oranges. I think it's a mistake to put the numbers side by side when the methodology for obtaining those numbers is completely different.

 

DemocraticPatriot

(5,410 posts)
4. With those numbers, Israel is making Russia look "less bad"....
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 02:11 AM
Mar 2024

NOT a good look for Israel....

pinkstarburst

(1,810 posts)
8. Fixed that for you...
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 09:09 AM
Mar 2024

With those numbers, Israel HAMAS is making Russia look "less bad"....

NOT a good look for Israel HAMAS....

Celerity

(52,525 posts)
13. there is more to that story
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 10:35 AM
Mar 2024


For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces

The premier’s policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group. The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad. Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products.

Israeli officials said these permits, which allow Gazan laborers to earn higher salaries than they would in the enclave, were a powerful tool to help preserve calm. Toward the end of Netanyahu’s fifth government in 2021, approximately 2,000-3,000 work permits were issued to Gazans. This number climbed to 5,000 and, during the Bennett-Lapid government, rose sharply to 10,000.

Since Netanyahu returned to power in January 2023, the number of work permits has soared to nearly 20,000. Additionally, since 2014, Netanyahu-led governments have practically turned a blind eye to the incendiary balloons and rocket fire from Gaza. Meanwhile, Israel has allowed suitcases holding millions in Qatari cash to enter Gaza through its crossings since 2018, in order to maintain its fragile ceasefire with the Hamas rulers of the Strip.

snip



How Israel Secretly Propped Up Hamas



‘Buying Quiet’: Inside the Israeli Plan That Propped Up Hamas

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gambled that a strong Hamas (but not too strong) would keep the peace and reduce pressure for a Palestinian state.


https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

Just weeks before Hamas launched the deadly Oct. 7 attacks on Israel, the head of Mossad arrived in Doha, Qatar, for a meeting with Qatari officials. For years, the Qatari government had been sending millions of dollars a month into the Gaza Strip — money that helped prop up the Hamas government there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them. During his meetings in September with the Qatari officials, according to several people familiar with the secret discussions, the Mossad chief, David Barnea, was asked a question that had not been on the agenda:

Did Israel want the payments to continue? Mr. Netanyahu’s government had recently decided to continue the policy, so Mr. Barnea said yes. The Israeli government still welcomed the money from Doha. Allowing the payments — billions of dollars over roughly a decade — was a gamble by Mr. Netanyahu that a steady flow of money would maintain peace in Gaza, the eventual launching point of the Oct. 7 attacks, and keep Hamas focused on governing, not fighting. The Qatari payments, while ostensibly a secret, have been widely known and discussed in the Israeli news media for years.

Mr. Netanyahu’s critics disparage them as part of a strategy of “buying quiet,” and the policy is in the middle of a ruthless reassessment following the attacks. Mr. Netanyahu has lashed back at that criticism, calling the suggestion that he tried to empower Hamas “ridiculous.” In interviews with more than two dozen current and former Israeli, American and Qatari officials, and officials from other Middle Eastern governments, The New York Times unearthed new details about the origins of the policy, the controversies that erupted inside the Israeli government and the lengths that Mr. Netanyahu went to in order to shield the Qataris from criticism and keep the money flowing.

The payments were part of a string of decisions by Israeli political leaders, military officers and intelligence officials — all based on the fundamentally flawed assessment that Hamas was neither interested in nor capable of a large-scale attack. The Times has previously reported on intelligence failures and other faulty assumptions that preceded the attacks. Even as the Israeli military obtained battle plans for a Hamas invasion and analysts observed significant terrorism exercises just over the border in Gaza, the payments continued. For years, Israeli intelligence officers even escorted a Qatari official into Gaza, where he doled out money from suitcases filled with millions of dollars.

snip

ecstatic

(34,958 posts)
14. It's both. They're both killing innocents
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 10:35 AM
Mar 2024

indiscriminately. We're all reasonable adults here. Even when people/ countries who we really support are off track and making mistakes, we have to be able to acknowledge reality and demand course correction. Otherwise, we're equivalent to trumpers where there is literally nothing that goes too far. No red line.

xmas74

(29,969 posts)
2. It seems like the issue is that they didn't notify council
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 08:20 PM
Mar 2024

Before starting the fundraiser. When I was a leader we had to notify council before we could fundraise anything that wasn't on the national. The reason is that council wants to know who is doing it, what it is, what happens to the funds and who is in charge before this happens. They don't want the GS to be affiliated with something that might not be on the up and up.
Before anyone argues about this just know there were people out there claiming to be part of a "Scout troop" fundraising for Joplin after the tornado.They were not affiliated with GS and the money didn't go where promised. Who received complaints about it? That council.

I suspect if it had all been done following the SOP there wouldn't have been an issue.

 

Earth-shine

(4,044 posts)
6. If they sold cookies with "Israel" on it, would that be okay?
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 04:50 AM
Mar 2024

Just asking for a friend. Or maybe he's my enemy.

harumph

(3,022 posts)
9. Maybe they should just sell the cookies sans political statements.
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 09:16 AM
Mar 2024

Is there anything anodyne enough to be universally agreed upon?

 

Earth-shine

(4,044 posts)
10. It was a fundraiser specifically for the children of Gaza. I don't think the girls were thinking about politics.
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 09:54 AM
Mar 2024

But, in today's highly politicized environment, it's not politically correct.

Apparently, they did run afoul of some protocols regarding fundraising. They made an error, due to their empathy and humanity.

xmas74

(29,969 posts)
17. They didn't contact council with details before starting.
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 01:31 PM
Mar 2024

There are so many scams out there. Troops are supposed to contact their local council before starting any fundraiser outside of already approved. This allows council to, at the very least, know what's happening with all aspects.
If this had been a scam it would have come back on council. This has nothing to do with Gaza. I know I saw people pretend to be part of Scout troops and fundraise for Joplin after it was devastated by a tornado. Council didn't know about it and it was discovered that one of the troops also didn't know- one that supposedly was involved in the fundraising.
Troop leaders are told to contact council before any fundraiser. This allows for them to have all the information involved. It can also allow for them to put the troop fundraiser online with information on how to contribute.

 

brooklynite

(96,882 posts)
11. The purpose of Girl Scout Cookie sales is to teach some lessons on running a business....
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 10:20 AM
Mar 2024

....one lesson is not to sell a product that people don't want to buy.

limbicnuminousity

(1,413 posts)
12. We Are Girl Scouts
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 10:33 AM
Mar 2024
https://www.girlscouts.org/en/discover/about-us.html

Girl Scouts bring their dreams to life and work together to build a better world. Through programs from coast to coast, Girl Scouts of all backgrounds and abilities can be unapologetically themselves as they discover their strengths and rise to meet new challenges—whether they want to climb to the top of a tree or the top of their class, lace up their boots for a hike or advocate for climate justice, or make their first best friends. Backed by trusted adult volunteers, mentors, and millions of alums, Girl Scouts lead the way as they find their voices and make changes that affect the issues most important to them.


Unless they worry about the wrong dead children, apparently.

Mossfern

(4,440 posts)
21. If you read the article
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 02:24 PM
Mar 2024

It wasn't because of where the funds were going. The decision the GSA made was because they didn't follow the approval process. The decision would be the same if the funds were going to Jewish children.

(sigh) To a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

limbicnuminousity

(1,413 posts)
22. That explains
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 02:31 PM
Mar 2024
Abuhamdeh said she was disappointed and hurt.

“It triggered a lot of thoughts and emotions that I felt when I was growing up here — being silenced and suppressed for being a Palestinian,” she said. “Saying the word ‘Palestinian’ or ‘Palestine,’ it was a taboo thing to talk about. It was something that I wasn't able to express. It even led me to begin telling people — when they asked me where I was originally from — to say Jerusalem because it felt [like] it was more comfortable for them.”

“But to us,” she added, “the real victims of injustice are those who we were raising the money for, and that's the children in Gaza."

-snip-

“The way [the girls] put it was, ‘We still want to know how this fundraiser was different and treated differently than the one in Ukraine,’” Abuhamdeh said.


(sigh)

riversedge

(78,366 posts)
15. "..members of former Girl Scouts Troop 149 have sold more than 2,000 friendship bracelets$10,000 in donations.........
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 10:48 AM
Mar 2024

but there are folks who want to support the war victims in Gaza.
I am glad to see this. I just hope the money actually gets to the kids/families.


..........
https://www.stlpr.org/show/st-louis-on-the-air/2024-02-27/disbanded-girl-scout-troop-vows-to-continue-support-for-child-war-victims-in-gaza

Since Jan. 13, the members of former Girl Scouts Troop 149 have sold more than 2,000 friendship bracelets — totaling more than $10,000 in donations — to benefit child war victims in Gaza.
..............

SYFROYH

(34,212 posts)
18. It's hard for me to imagine people opposing fundraisers for suffering children.
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 01:43 PM
Mar 2024

But I suppose they exist.

Mossfern

(4,440 posts)
19. There is no opposition to fundraising for starving children in the Girl Scout's decision
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 02:11 PM
Mar 2024

The troop did not go through the standard approval process for fundraisers. Unfortunately some people are using this decision as propaganda, claiming bias against Palestinians. I'm sure there have been other fund raising events by Girl Scout troops that were disapproved.

The troop did not need to disband. They could have done the fundraiser independently and people would have gladly bought the bracelets for the fundraiser. It's the use of the Girl Scouts name as a sponsor without approval that's the issue.

gulliver

(13,556 posts)
20. It was their mistake, and they were unjust in dissing the Girl Scouts
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 02:15 PM
Mar 2024

The Girl Scouts is a great organization, and this article does an injustice to them. You can't just put on a Girl Scout uniform and go out and sell something and give the money to whoever you feel like giving it to. The article makes clear that the organization has a process that needs to be followed. It's common sense. The parents of these girls and their troop leader simply made a mistake.

But the bigger mistake, by far, that they made was not owning up to the first mistake and admitting they were the ones in the wrong. They tried to make the Girl Scouts look bad. Those parents and their daughters owe the Girl Scouts an apology. It should be issued and added to the article as a note at the top.

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